LRH: Okay. Have a seat. Shut the door. There we go.

PC: They can see me? (chuckles)

LRH: Yeah, sit forward. Way up. Attagirl.

Now, here we are. (Make sure I got a pencil.) Now, a little bit over here - (sounds of motion) put strain on the situation. I hope that's all right with you.

Now, you probably wonder why you are here.

PC: I am consumed with curiosity.

LRH: Well, actually, you are here because you have had a continuing present time problem.

PC: O-o-o-ooh

LRH: And a bunch of alleged … What's the date? 2 May.

PC: Alleged?

LRH: Alleged Prepchecking was done on you, and I've just given a lecture on missed withholds …

PC: Mmm.

LRH: … and I just want to show people how awful easy it is. You know, if people would just relax about the thing, you know, and just do it, it'd all be all right. But they don't.

They manage to do everything else. Well, here we are at 8:24.

Now, what we're going to do is very, very simple. All I'm going to do is locate some of the missed withholds everybody has been playing tag with, you see, and that they've been having a marvelous time with.

PC: That's fine.

LRH: And we're going to straighten this out. But the truth of the matter is that they - apparently, whoever was giving you a Prepcheck was missing on most cylinders.

(chuckles) I mean, I don't care if whoever sits there and hears me, you know? I mean, there's a - this is, you know … (laughs)

PC: Mmm.

LRH: … I mean, this is just an oh-my-God situation, see?

Now, there's more to all this than everybody is doing, you understand me? And it's also simpler. So we're going to straighten this out if we can. We'll see what luck we have.

PC: That's fine.

LRH: All right.

PC: I want to find out too. (laughs)

LRH: Why, (chuckles) you - you'll find out. (LRH and PC laugh) All right.

PC: Great.

LRH: Okay. So, here we go.

Is it all right with you if I start this session now?

PC: Yes.

LRH: All right, here it is. Start of session. Okay. Has the session started for you?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Very good. What goals would you like to set for this session?

PC: Well, to find the missed withholds!

LRH: All right. Good. Any other goal you'd like to set for this session?

PC: Yeah, to get the PTP handled.

LRH: Hm?

PC: To get the PTP handled.

LRH: All right.

PC: That's enough

LRH: All right. Is that enough?

PC: Mmm.

LRH: All right. Any goals you'd like to set for Life or livingness?

PC: Yeah I want to get through the - make a concerted effort to study and get through this stupidity ridge I'm sitting in on the…

LRH: All right.

PC: … material.

LRH: (pause) Any other goal you'd like to set for life or livingness?

PC: No. That's enough. Mm

LRH: All right. Good. Now, here we go.

Now, look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room.

PC: Yes.

LRH: All right. I got a little tick there. What do you …

PC: I noticed the picture. Everywhere I go, I see that picture.

LRH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay. Now, look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room.

PC: Yes.

LRH: All right. There's just one little tick left there. Anything else about this room? That's it.

That's it.

PC: … Mm. Just noticing the bed.

LRH: Hmm. That's it.

PC: Not anything special about it.

LRH: All right. It's going to kick on it.

PC: Is it?

LRH: Yeah. It did. What about that bed?

PC: Uh … rather out of place In this room.

LRH: It's out of place.

PC: Yes.

LRH: All right. Good enough.

PC: Belongs in a bedroom.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Very good. Okay. Look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room.

That's fine. Thank you very much.

PC: Mm-mm.

LRH: That's clear now. All right. Are you willing to talk to me about your difficulties?

PC: Yes.

LRH: All right. There's just one little slightly latent tick on that, you might say.

PC: Mm. Well, I - I… it's difficult for me to reach for you.

LRH: Oh, there is …

PC: Yes.

LRH: … oh, it is. All right. Okay. Are you willing to talk to me about your difficulties?

PC: Mm.

LRH: That's fine. That came out. That's clear now. All right. Are you withholding anything? I got a tick there.

PC: Just more of the same. I've got so many overts on you that I tend to individuate, is…

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: My ineffectiveness on dissemination.

LRH: All right. Okay. Well, right this minute, are you withholding anything?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. Thank you very much. Are you - now, let me see if this is clear.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: Are you withholding anything? Well, that's pretty good. There's just the tiniest tick there now.

PC: (sighs) Hmmmm.

LRH: Just the tiniest tick. Right - right now, just right this minute, are you withholding anything?

PC: No there isn't anything I'm not willing to talk to you about. There's a whole gob of stuff, of course, that I…

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: … got rattling around.

LRH: All right.

PC: But not withholding anything from you.

LRH: All right. Very good. All right. Let me test this again.

PC: Mm-mm.

LRH: Are you withholding anything? Well, we've got that clear enough. It's nothing but a latent read on it.

PC: Mm. Good-o.

LRH: Okay. Now, do you have a present time problem? That … (PC laughs) I get nothing - an equivocal registry on this, very latent.

PC: Mm.

LRH: But what are you laughing about there particularly?

PC: Well, just, I've got a chronic PTP.

LRH: All right. But right now, aside from that chronic PTP, do you have a present time problem?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. There's a little tick there. There's just a little tick there. What is your problem right this minute that …

PC: Well, a little bit of a hope that this session comes out so it's real instructive for the students.

LRH: Oh, well! I'm not - we're not running this session, you know, for the students. That's all right. (LRH and PC laugh)

PC: I - I know But I - they feel very close right now.

LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: They're almost in the room.

LRH: That's fine. And that's what you …

PC: Mmm.

LRH: … what you thought of there.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Very good. Thank you. All right. Do you have a present time problem?

PC: No.

LRH: That's dandy. That - that - oh, I don't know. There was just there was one little other tick there. (PC chuckles) I said "dandy" but a little bit too soon.

PC: Yeah, well, I to have a problem with the course. I could put my attention on the course at this time and uh …

LRH: Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

PC: - an awful difficulty in material.

LRH: All right. Okay. Now let me check this again.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: Do you have a present time problem? Well, there's an infinitesimal flick … We're getting it cut right down now. There's just an infinitesimal flick before a latent tick.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: There's two flicks here.

PC: Uh - well.

LRH: All right. Now, what might that be?

PC: Well, am I going to be terminated next week without a classification? That …

LRH: Oh. I see.

PC. that's the problem

LRH: No, you were already extended, I think. That's uh …

PC: Oh, was I?

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Oh, good-o. (big sigh)

LRH: We weren't worried about that.

PC: Yeah. Well, that… (chuckles)

LRH: (chuckles) All right. Instructions were…

PC: Well, this could go into the chronic PTP actually, because this is what I've got keyed in.

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: It's how do I get effective enough to do something about my marriage and to something about dissem - dissemination. It's just the whole ball of wax.

LRH: Hmm, hmm, hmm. All right. This is a constant worry to you.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: Hm-hm. All right. Now, aside from that PTP which we're going to take up here anyplace …

PC: Yeah, I know. That's …

LRH: … do you have a present time problem?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. I still get a tick.

PC: Well see, the course is part of this one because …

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: … this is where I hope to get effective enough to do something about my livingness.

LRH: All right. All right. All right.

PC: And that's the only thing that is worrying me. That people that this caught with only two or three weeks to go, and so forth - they got extended.

LRH: Mm-mm. All right. Okay. Let me…check it again.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: It was automatic. All right. Let me check this again.

Do you have a present time problem? I've got a tiny flick. (PC laughs) Right this minute. Now, I'm not talking about … Now, we're going to take up your …

PC: Yeah, I know.

LRH: husband and the course and dissemination.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: We're going to take all that up. But, right here, right now - right now, do you have a present time problem?

PC: No.

LRH: That's it. Thank you. All right. I'm going to let that ride …

PC: Okay.

LRH: …because we got it clean as a whistle. (PC sighs) Okay?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Now I would like to do a little Prepchecking on you, if that's all right with you. What would you say to that?

PC: That's fine.

LRH: All right. Here we go.

First thing I've got to do is look at your folder.

PC: Mm. (sighs)

LRH: And we seem to have been racking up a lot of O/Ws on the course and O/Ws, O/Ws, O/Ws. Well, O/Ws aren't missed withholds and they aren't problems.

Well, (pause; chuckles) you got a lot of stuff here about snakes. No, nothing marked null on that. And destroying plants, and snakes and … Somebody is having a ball here one way or the other. Wonder how far afield you can get. (laughs) That hasn't anything to do with it.

Let's get into something here. Let's get into something here, shall we?

PC: Mm.

LRH: Now, you got a chronic present time problem about your .. Not trying to upset your auditor or anything like that, if your auditor is hearing all of this. (PC chuckles) It's not he. This started with your auditor earlier …

PC: Oh

LRH: … and it's been going adrift, and all I'm going to get into is I understand you have a chronic present time problem now that has to do with your husband and so forth. Is that right?

PC: Mm. Actually, part of it is Bill and Donna, too, of the Scientology Center.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: It's all one big ball of wax, really.

LRH: Hm?

PC: It s all big bunch - big - one big bunch of wax and glue, like.

LRH: All right. Now, were you having trouble with your husband before you had trouble with this Center?

PC: No.

LRH: Oh, you only had it since.

PC: Actually, it all started at the same time. You see, I met my husband through the… Bill and Donna.

LRH: Oh, you met your husband through here.

PC: It all started …

LRH: I see. Well, we get a fall here on the Center.

PC: Mm.

LRH: We don't get much of a fall on your husband.

PC: Yeah But that's the problem.

LRH: How about your husband? No.

PC: Well…

LRH: All right. And how about the Center? Well, you're thinking about something else, now.

PC: I am? (little laugh)

LRH: Yeah

PC: Well I actually don't feel that the problem with my husband is acute anymore because uh …

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: … I can separate this one out.

LRH: Hm?

PC: … actually Scien - Scientology is my problem.

LRH: Oh! Huh?

PC: How do I disseminate effectively?

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: You're part of it.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay. And how long has this been a problem?

PC: Mm, actually, it's been a problem since '56.

LRH: Hmm? '55. Earlier? Earlier than '55? Yeah.

PC: '50. (laughs)

LRH: '50? Was the problem in '50?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Yeah. We're getting a fall now.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: All right. This predates this Center - huh?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. What about '50?

PC: Well, that …

LRH: Spring of '50?

PC: No.

LRH: Summer?

PC: It was in late September, early October when I met … Red first spoke.

LRH: All right. September, October. Okay. Did you have some auditing sessions at that time?

PC: Yeah. My first instructor.

LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I well know this particular combination.

PC: (sighs) Mm.

LRH: All right. Now, what we're going to do here is we're going to operate on a Zero question. And let me just test two or three Zero questions here.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right?

PC: That's fine.

LRH: I'm going to say, has an auditor ever failed to find out something about you? All right. That's not it. What should have been found out about you? All right. What should have been found out about you? Have you ever failed to find out about something? What should have been found out about you? That seems to have a little reaction there. All right. So we're going to put that down as the Zero, in spite of the fact that it starts with what. (chuckles)

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And what should have found - been found out about you? What should have been found out about you? That's it.

All right. Now, we're referring clear back to September? Something like that? October?

PC: October.

LRH: It's October.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: October 1950.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right?

PC: Um-hm.

LRH: And what should have been found out about you at that time?

PC: Hm.

LRH: That's it.

PC: Well, that I was … actually didn't have - well, I - I was - I was stupid. That's - that's my biggest problem, is my stupidity.

LRH: All right. Okay. Very good. And did your stupidity get you into some trouble at that time? Nope.

PC: Uh-uh [no]

LRH: Well, who failed to find out about this? (PC takes deep breath)

That's it.

PC: Well Jackins.

LRH: Jackins? Jackins? Harvey Jackins? Oh, you'll have to come again.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: Who was it? Who was it? You've got him. Who was it?

PC: Well, I'm looking at Jimmy.

LRH: Hm?

PC: My … my first husband, Jimmy.

LRH: Jimmy? All right. Was it Jimmy? Jimmy? We got a little halt on that. Jimmy? Jimmy.

PC: Mm.

LRH: All right. Anybody ever ask any Prepcheck question on Jimmy?

PC: Overt-withhold on him.

LRH: No.

PC: Not Prepchecking, no.

LRH: Anybody ever ask you any Prepcheck question on Jimmy?

PC: I… a husband, actually. Not Jimmy … Yeah, I think they did. I think Ava did.

LRH: Mm-hm. When was that?

PC: (sighs) When Prepchecking first started here.

LRH: Mmm.

PC: It generalized into what have you - "What did you do to a husband? " "What have you done to a husband?"

LRH: Well, what did he fail to find out about you in October of 1950?

PC: Well …

LRH: That's it.

PC: Yeah. That I was uh … hmm … (pause) using, actually Dianetics to uh … (pause) I.... I… I…

LRH: You got it.

PC: get real confused what I did (laughs)

LRH: All right. Come on.

PC: Um

LRH: You got it. Using Dianetics …

PC: But actually, to establish … a beingness that couldn't be made less of.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: This.

LRH: All right. All right. What did he fail to find out? What did Jimmy fail to find out there?

PC: Well, that I didn't consider myself anything.

LRH: Ah, I see.

PC: That's what I'm hung up in. I …

LRH: All right.

PC: … I totally made nothing of myself …

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: … really. (chuckles)

LRH: All right. Is that October of 1950?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. There we go. Hotter than a pistol. (PC breathes deeply) Okay. Okay, now, well, who was this an overt against?

PC: Well, Jimmy.

LRH: All right. And just what did you do to Jimmy there?

PC: Well, I learned Sci - Dianetics at that time. I got to understanding it better than he…

LRH: Yeah …

PC: and using it as a - "I am smarter than you are."

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: I do that to Charlie too. (laughs)

LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.

PC: Better. But I did that to Jimmy.

LRH: Okay. And what did you do there specifically?

PC: I took the first course under Jackins and learned about Dianetics. Learned to audit.

LRH: All right. All right. All right. But what did you do to Jimmy there, specifically?

PC: Well I made him take the course with me.

LRH: All right. That's it. Go on.

PC: (pause) Oh. But just a feel that … was using, then, Dianetics to solve him.

LRH: To do what?

PC: To solve him.

LRH: Oh, I see. Well now we're back to what didn't he find out there?

PC: (pause; sighs) Well, he didn't find out that I - (laughs) that I thought - that I thought he was more able than I was. I would always put out that I was - was more able.

LRH: Yeah …

PC: … than he was.

LRH: All right.

PC: And I never let him know that I considered myself inferior to him.

LRH: All right. All right. Good enough. Good enough. Now, what did you do that he failed to find out?

PC: (breathes deeply, pause) Hm.

LRH: That's it. That's it.

PC: Well, I read the first book …

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: … but then he found about - out about that later.

LRH: Yeah, but what did you do … u …

PC: Ooh.

LRH: … specifically? Come on. What did you do specifically? You must have done something there.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: The needle isn't falling on …

PC: Reading the first book, you mean?

LRH: … nothing. No. I mean, the needle isn't falling on nothing here.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: This needle is falling on something. And it's doing rather steep, repetitive falls every time you think over this situation. So what did you do? You must have done something. Now, what did you do?

PC: That he didn't know about that.

LRH: Yeah!

PC: He didn't find out about it.

LRH: That's right. He never found out about it that time.

PC: Well, see, this is why it's difficult for me because I would do it and then it was a get-even-with.

LRH: All right.

PC: So he - he always knew what I did, but I - well, he didn't know it was a get - yeah, he knew it was a get-even-with, too.

LRH: All right. Good. Good. That's fine. But what … (PC laughs) what did you do? You see, you're mostly telling me attitudes …

PC: Yes, I know.

LRH: … you've had. do you understand? I want to know something you did that he never found out about. That's it.

PC: (sighs) Anytime? You mean later than …

LRH: I don't care when it was.

PC: … when? Well…

LRH: Tell me what it was.

PC: … Well, okay: I - I did stuff that he didn't find out. Later, though. You see, I went into a promiscuity bit later, after I left him, that he didn't find - ever find out about.

LRH: All right. All right. All right.

PC: But this was later than …

LRH: All right. And earlier, what did you do that he didn't find out about? I want a specific instance here.

PC: Earlier.

LRH: I don't care when. (PC laughs) You just give me one.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: A specific thing that you did - that you did, you know …

PC: Mm.

LRH: … with your paws and your head and your hands and you. You know?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: You know, that you did that he never found out about - that Jimmy never found out about. (PC sighs) That's it.

PC: I don't have anything. I'm just …

LRH: Da-da-da-da.

PC: … looking.

LRH: That's it right there. Right there.

PC: Oh?

LRH: That's it.

PC: It is? I've got an area of time, but I don't have a doingness.

LRH: Hm?

PC: I've got an area of time, but not a doingness.

LRH: All right. It's right in that area of time.

PC: This is in Oklahoma in 1943, when I - before I married him.

LRH: All right. Go on. Go on.

PC: Hm.

LRH: You've got it taped. What did you … That's it, right there.

PC: (pause) I did. Huh - something I did. I had …

LRH: Mm-hm! That's it. You - you're right on it. You're right on it.

PC: Well, I had some intentions to - well, I did trap him. (LRH: chuckles) I gonna … you know?

LRH: Is that something you did?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right.

PC: Did he find - I don't think he ever found out about that.

LRH: And he never found out about it?

PC: I don't think so.

LRH: All right. And now, over this further. What did you specifically do?

PC: (sighs) Well, I slept with him, as a trap.

LRH: All right.

PC: Uh … I actually, used up my virginity at that point to trap him.

LRH: All right. Okay.

PC: This is - this is the … the biggest overt I have on Jimmy.

LRH: And what's the overt there?

PC: Just, I was a virgin and this flipped him. You see, he seduced me at that point, and I … and that hung him up.

LRH: I see. I see. All …

PC: I intended to use it, you see …

LRH: All right.

PC: … as a trap.

LRH: What - what did - how do you state this now? Exactly what did you do?

PC: Hm. (pause)

LRH: Do, you know. (PC laughs) Not thought or intended. What did you do? What did you do, specifically?

PC: Well…

LRH: That's - you're getting there.

PC: Yeah. I…

LRH: That's it.

PC: Well, I don't know how to state it so that it makes a good One question.

LRH: Well, you let me (PC laughs) make up the One question. Okay?

PC: Yeah. Let's see.

LRH: You make - you let me audit this, huh?

PC: (laughing) Okay.

LRH: Just because you haven't been audited lately, why, this doesn't say you're not being audited now.

PC: (laughing) Okay.

LRH: All right. Let's go now. What did you do?

PC: Well, the - the - the nearest I can come to it - and this sounds maudlin - out like I saved myself, you know?

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: Like, l stayed a virgin …

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: … to trap a man.

LRH: All right.

PC: I had every intention all this life to to that.

LRH: All right. Okay. All right. You're getting - you're getting there. It's ticking in.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: I acknowledge you did that.

PC: Yes. Okay (laughs)

LRH: All right. I acknowledge you did that. I'm just driving it down …

PC: Mm.

LRH: … in time, in a specific instance; at a specific moment.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: An act. An actual act, not an intention. I want an act. What did you do?

PC: (pause) Mm.

LRH: That's right. Now you're rocking on it. That's it.

PC: Well, that isn't very much of an act, though, you know? I mean it was …

LRH: I don't care. What is the act? There it is.

PC: Well…

LRH: That's it.

PC: … to use this. I've … Doesn't come out like a doingness though. It's an intention.

LRH: I don't care how it comes out like.

PC: Well, just - I - I…

LRH: You just tell me what you did and I'll take it from there.

PC: Okay. I spotted Jimmy in the environment, and I decided he was the man I was going to trap by sleeping with him, and then I was going to marry him.

LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: Was an intention to marry him.

LRH: All right. Good. That's fine. And you got the tick there. (PC sighs) And what did you do?

PC: I slept with him.

LRH: All right. Very good. And you slept with him with what intention?

PC: To marry him.

LRH: To many him?

PC: Mm-mm.

LRH: Or to trap him?

PC: No. It just - that's the same. (laughs)

LRH: Oh, is that the same?

PC: That s the same to me, yes.

LRH: That's the same.- All right.

PC: Marriage is a trap, yeah.

LRH. All right.

PC: It's a trap.

LRH: What about sleeping with a man to trap him, huh?

PC: Well, this is fine except he's the only one I did this life. (laughs)

LRH: All right. That's all right.

PC: Well, the earliest one I did, I should say.

LRH: That's my girl. (chuckles)

PC: Yeah, that's the earliest one this life. (coughs)

LRH: That's a little more honest.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: All right. And we've got our What. All right. And that isn't … Nobody is doing anything accusative here. But you see, I operate very funny, Dorothy. I think it's what people do, not what they intend to do, that makes a Prepcheck.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And, of course, I know that's novel. (chuckles)

PC: Yeah. (laughs)

LRH: I know - I know that's a novel theory. (chuckles)

Look-a-here now. You've got an incident here. Is that right?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now, when was that exactly?

PC: a … that was in uh …

LRH: That's a girl.

PC: … well, May…

LRH: That's a girl.

PC: … of 1943.

LRH: All right. That gives a nice little bing there.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: Very good. May of 1943.

PC: Mmm.

LRH: All right. Well, we're back here in '43. Right?

PC: A hm-hm.

LRH: All right. And where was that specifically?

PC: Norman, Oklahoma.

LRH: Norman, Oklahoma.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right.

PC: I was in the navy.

LRH: Hm?

PC: I was in the navy.

LRH: Is that a girl? (chuckles) All right.

PC: Yeah. (chuckles)

LRH: All right. Very good. Now, what should have appeared there and didn't?

PC: (pause) Hmm. (long pause; sighs) I know something that shouldn't have appeared.

LRH: All right. What was that?

PC: Well, my girlfriend.

LRH: Aha. She did appear, huh?

PC: Hm.

LRH: Hey! now. Very good. Very good. And who didn't find out about it?

PC: That she - you mean about her appearance or the incident?

LRH: Well, no, just who didn't find out about the incident?

PC: Oh. My mother!

LRH: Ah, your mother didn't.

PC: My mother.

LRH: All right. That's my girl.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now? when was this?

PC: It was in the evening, in May … I think May. The summer.

LRH: Mm-hm..

PC: Well, you can't tell about (chuckles) Oklahoma. It gets summer there fast.

LRH: All right. And just exactly where was that located? That's it.

PC: Well, that was a hotel …

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: … out on the outskirts of town.

LRH: Good. Good. All right. Bing-bing.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: You got it. That's bing-bing.

PC: Yeah, I yeah, I-I can - I know what hotel it was.

LRH: All right.

PC: I liked it, the hotel.

LRH: All right. And what didn't appear there?

PC: (pause) hmm. (pause)

LRH: There it is.

PC: Mmm. Well, I'm getting more what's … what is beginning to appear there is more the misemotion.

LRH: Mm-mm. And what didn't appear?

PC: (pause) hmm. The room! I can't find it.

LRH: Mm-mm. All right. That's good - enough.

PC: Is there a … hm, hazy picture.

LRH: All right. Now, who failed to find out about this incident?

PC: (sighs) Jimmy's mother.

LRH: All right. What didn't Jimmy suspect there? (brief pause) That's it.

PC: Well, he didn't suspect that I was going to hold him to this one.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: Actually, what he didn't suspect was that he would get that totally entrapped on it. Oh, I know what he didn't expect!

LRH: What?

PC: Well, he didn't expect me to be a virgin, of course!

LRH: Well, all right. Okay.

PC: That's what he didn't expect me to …

LRH: All right.

PC: That's what he didn't expect. (laughs) Yeah.

LRH: All right. Well, that's a very interesting …

PC: Mmm.

LRH: … thing for him to find out at that moment, huh?

PC: Yeah!

LRH: So how did he take on about that?

PC: Well, he flipped.

LRH: Oh?

PC: He flipped.

LRH: He flipped?

PC: Yes.

LRH: And what did that mean for him?

PC: That mean he - means - that meant he was trapped.

LRH: Yes sir.

PC: Mmm. That was a dirty trick.

LRH: All right. Very good. (chuckles)

PC: That was.

LRH: All right. Very good. And when was this again?

PC: (sigh) Hmm.

LRH: That's it.

PC: Oh, gosh. You know, it … it was just about this time of year? Mm … early May?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: It was in the evening.

LRH: Hm-hm. What time in the evening?

PC: Oh, about … I should say about twelve o'clock at night.

LRH: That's it. There it is. There it is.

PC: Yeah. 'Cause we went out first, and then came back.

LRH: Hm-hm. Hm-hm. All right. Is there any more about that? Is there any more to that?

PC: Well, just … it was messy.

LRH: How do you mean, messy?

PC: Well, I got blood all over my clothes.

LRH: Oh, yeah.

PC: This is what Betty discovered.

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: And an unexpectedness on Betty.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: Uh … (pause) This - this was rather an uncomfortable situation for me.

LRH: All right. Very good. And what failed to appear there?

PC: (sighs) Mmm. Well, there 's something very interesting going on here. There's Bob in the background, but somehow he's there ant not there.

LRH: Who?

PC: Betty's boyfriend.

LRH: Yeah?

PC: Bob? Was that his name?

LRH: There was somebody else at the hotel with you?

PC: Yeah. Bob.

LRH: All right.

PC: Betty's boyfriend.

LRH: There … there was somebody there?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Oh, I see. Had they put up at the hotel?

PC: Yeah. They were in another room.

LRH: Oh, I see. All right. Then they knew all about this.

PC: Well, I don't think Bob did.

LRH: I see.

PC: I think Betty told him, which I don't think she did.

LRH: Hm.

PC: I didn't tell him.

LRH: I see.

PC: My hometown.

LRH: What town in Montana?

PC: Fromberg, south of Billings.

LRH: Yeah?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Attagirl. All right. Now, who failed to find out about that whole thing?

PC: My mother.

LRH: All right. That's tick-tick, bang Now we're really getting there.

PC: Yeah. Mother and Dad.

LRH: Hm-hm. They didn't find out about this?

PC: No.

LRH: Do they know about it to this day?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. You've never had anything to say to them about this.

PC: Oh, no. They … they wouldn't have dug this game at all.

LRH: They wouldn't have, huh?

PC: Oh, no.

LRH: All right. And what did you do? Did you tell them something else? (PC sighs) That's it.

PC: Well, yeah. I told them that I wanted to get married. This was perfectly reasonable. But I didn't tell them that I had … Well, see, the one I've got there's that this is the only thing I had of any value.

LRH: What?

PC: My virginity.

LRH: All right.

PC: It's the only thing I ever considered was valuable.

LRH: All right. Very good. Very good.

PC: I already knew I was no good.

LRH: All right.

PC: You know?

LRH: Okay. All right now, is there any earlier incident? (PC sighs) That's it.

PC: Well, that is when I was only thirteen.

LRH: When you were thirteen.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Very good And what did you do when you were thirteen?

PC: Well, this one was sort of inadvertent. Some guy spotted me, and turned on a big um … admiration deal for me. I never could understand that one.

LRH: Hm-hm. All right What did you do there?

PC: Well, I was just sitting in the park minding my own business …

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: … and he came along.

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: Yeah. I did do something there. I did uh …

LRH: That's it.

PC: … try to force … like I must be something if I attracted him, and tried to force the relationship.

LRH: Oh all right. Very good. Okay. And when was that?

PC: That was in 1933. That was in - on Labor Day, 19th. September.

LRH: Labor Day, 1933.

PC: Yeah

LRH: Very good.

PC: Labor Day celebration.

LRH: All right. And is that all there is to that?

PC: Uh … no. I kept that one but tried to foister some sort of a romance out of that. I couldn't make it, though.

All right. Good enough. But right there at that instant. Right there at …

PC: Oh, that…

LRH: … that moment. Is that all there is to that?

PC: Yeah

LRH: Yeah. All right. Very good. All right. What failed to appear there? PC: (pause) Well, sur-r-r-re enough, uh … the - whatever I had mocked up as a desirable male failed to appear there, because he sure wasn't.

LRH: All right.

PC: You know?

LRH: Very good. Very good. Now, who didn't find out about this incident?

PC: His mother.

LRH: His mother?

PC: Yes.

LRH: Oh, all right. How old was he?

PC: Uh … fifteen. No, I guess he was only about fourteen - thirteen, fourteen, too.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And she didn't find out about it, huh?

PC: Oh, no. You see …

LRH: Was he upset about this?

PC: Well, later, I introduced him to my mother; you see? And then later he had a compulsion to introduce his mother to me. This is …

LRH: All right.

PC: … a real funny one on it.

LRH: That's bing-bing. We're getting somewhere now.

PC: Yeah She … she disapproved, you see? (chuckles)

LRH: Did she tell you she disapproved?

PC: No. Just …

LRH: Did you tell her?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. Very good. Now, is there anything earlier than this?

PC: Good heavens, no!

LRH: Well, was there anything earlier than this?

PC: No.

LRH: I don't get much of a wrack-around here on it. Is there anything earlier here about trying to sleep with a man to trap him?

PC: (brief pause) Hm-mm no.

LRH: Well now, we just had that go counter to what you just said.

PC: Well, I'm looking at some …

LRH: Come on. Come on. What could there have been earlier?

PC: Well, there was some sex play with my brothers, but that wasn't wanting to sleep with them to marry them.

LRH: Oh, all right. All right. But how about trapping them? Would this trap them in some way?

PC: Oh. well, yeah. That - that - there was some wanting to be close to my brothers.

Actually, this is interesting. That's - that's that "I want to be close to a man."

LRH: Yeah.

PC: And I did want to be …

LRH: All right.

PC: … close to my brothers.

LRH: All right. Very good. And when did this sexual activity take place?

PC: Well, it's my brother Eddie.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: That's the incident there with uh … it … it was just straight together, his masturbation - me letting him …

LRH: All right.

PC: … do it.

LRH: Good enough. And now, when was this?

PC: Uh … oh, dear. I got to guess on this one. About 1928, 29.

LRH: All right. Good enough. Good enough.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Is that all there is to that?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. And what appeared there?

PC: Well, this… the …

LRH: That's it.

PC: Yeah, it was too much misemotion. I mean, I - I - I couldn't confront … easily confront his emotion on this one.

LRH: There we go.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: We're right there. Right there now.

PC: Yeah, this is …

LRH: You couldn't confront his …

PC: Mm.

LRH: … emotion.

PC: Mm.

LRH: Hm-hm. Emotion appeared there.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Mmm. Mmm.

PC: It's actually sexual sensation on his part.

LRH: Mmm. And you weren't able to confront that.

PC: Uh-uh [no].

LRH: Okay.

PC: Interesting.

LRH: All right Very good. Now who failed to find out about that?

PC: My mother.

LRH: Right. All right. There it is. Bing-bing. Very good.

PC: My mother. Oh, wow!

LRH: All right. Fine. How did this trap your brother? (PC sighs) There it is.

PC: Well, was - there was that emotional tie there. Something in - we had experienced something in common. Um … this actually is a… Huh. (pause) Hm … just the misemotion is what's the trap. Sort of a goopy misemotion that…

LRH: All right.

PC: … couldn't - couldn't ever have just as a clean-cut type relationship. There was always that withhold there - on his part. It's actually still there.

LRH: What? On his part?

PC: Yeah. It's still there.

LRH: To this day?

PC: Uh-huh.

LRH: To this day, he's still afraid people will find out about this?

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Is that so?

PC: Actually, he's afraid I'm going to mention it. One of these days I am. I'm going to pull that withhold off of him.

LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: I think that would help.

LRH: (chuckles) Okay. All right. Now, is there any earlier incident here? There's a little slowdown.

PC: Well, this is the picture that I don't have any … any recall on. Just a stuck visio.

LRH: Picture of what?

PC: Of running to Mother and telling her about a sexual experience with my brother Jake.

But this one was …

LRH: Writing to your mother?

PC: Running to my mother.

LRH: Running to her? Oh, running to her?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And telling her about a sexual experience with your brother Jake.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: When was that?

PC: Well, I'm sure I was only four years old, but I don't know why this comes out then in the place where I was … didn't live until I was six.

LRH: Well, that's good.

PC: (laughs) I mean, I've got some confusion in it.

LRH: All right. What is this? An overt act on Jake?

PC: Yeah. It's actually an overt act on Mother, too.

LRH: Uh-huh. Both of them.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Both of them.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Was it true?

PC: Yeah, it was true.

LRH: What was true?

PC: Well, the experience, uh… Well, no, I shouldn't say that because I don't remember the experience. I only remember running to my mother telling her that Jake had uh ..uh … taught me all about uh … well, l - I said, "Mom - Mother, Mother, Jake told me all about fucking" you see?

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: And my mother almost dropped dead!

LRH: Mm-mm. All right. Very good. Now, what didn't appear there?

PC: Well, what the hell ever happened there?

LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Well, who hasn't found out about this?

PC: My dad never found out. My other brother - my other brothers and sisters didn't find out.

LRH: They didn't find out.

PC: No.

LRH: Your father didn't find out.

PC No.

LRH: All right. How about Jake?

PC: Yeah, well, he found out about something because Mother beat him up.

LRH: Oh, I see. Was he punished?

PC: Yeah, he was punished.

LRH: All right. Now, when was this?

PC: Hmm. Well, boy, sure seems like 1924.

LRH: All right. Very good. 1924.

PC: Mm-mm.

LRH: What time of the year?

PC: Well, it co … See, that's where I get confused, because it was in the cornfield. And I was six years old in that place, but the corn was … Actually it was high, so it must have been in the middle of summer.

LRH: Okay. Very good. And is that all there is to that?

PC: Mmm.

LRH: Mm?

PC: Mm.

LRH: What else is there to that? There must be something else to it.

PC: Well, hmm. Bunch of confusion, like uh … it seems like it's the same incident is here I was sitting in the hallway or in the side porch with this … Mother had told me that uh . . well, she - it was more of an attitude of I was totally unacceptable to her. And just sitting in the uh … hall there thinking, you know, things will never be the same again. But I'm not sure it's the same incident.

LRH: All right

PC: It just seems like it.

LRH: Very good. Very good And what appeared there? (pause) All right. What didn't appear there? That's it.

PC: Well, Mother didn't. Um … I have a … real funny feeling there of being all alone.

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: That somebody else should have been there and wasn't.

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: I don't know.

LRH: All right. Now, who hasn't found out about that four-year-old incident?

PC: (sigh; pause) Hm. (pause) Well, I sure haven't found out parts of it.

LRH: All right. All right. Anybody else hasn't found out about it?

PC: Mm. Mother didn't find out other parts of it.

LRH: All right.

PC: The one that Mother didn't find out, actually, was I don't think she realized what uh … how uh … I Q-and-Aed with this. I mean, I just straight decided I was no good …

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: … on her consideration that I wasn't.

LRH: All right. Now, what are we talking about here that she considered you were no good? When did this enter into the situation?

PC: Well, it was uh … later in that incident - I think. I don't … it looks like…

LRH: Did she tell you you were no good, or what?

PC: Well, she - Yeah. Just …

LRH: What did she say?

PC: Well, she gasped like this was the most horrible thing that anybody could ever do.

LRH: Hm-hm. All right.

PC: I mean, it was the attitude …

LRH: What did she say?

PC: … and the misemo … (brief pause) Wells I think she appealed to God at that point that this happened - this horrible act had happened. I don 't remember what she said.

She was talking in German anyhow. I wouldn't remember German.

LRH: All right. (PC laughs) What had you just done there?

PC: Well, I told her that I was … that Jake and I had uh … I don't even remember what we - what - what we did. I do remember telling her that …

LRH: Yeah, but what did you tell her? That's what's important.

PC: Yeah Yeah. Well, I told her that Jake and I were fucking.

LRH: All right That's what you told her.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Very good. Very good. When was this?

PC: (sighs) I don't know, '24 or '26. 1924 or '26. I can't decide on this one.

LRH: Well, all right.

PC: It must have been in 1926 'cause we were living in Fromberg. But then everything that happened to me I put into my barnyard anyway, so this could be another thing I just put into my barnyard.

LRH: Into your barnyard?

PC: I drag all my pictures into my barnyard. It's the only safe place I had in my childhood.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: So every picture I - every time I get audited I drag all the pictures from all over the place, and I'd go into the barnyard to look at them, (laughs) while I was in the auditing chair.

LRH: Oh, yeah.

PC: This…

LRH: Now, where - where did this incident with Jake happen?

PC: Well, it was in the cornfield …

LRH: That's it.

PC; … so that - that had to be the farm.

LRH: Well, what did you do?

PC: I don't know.

LRH Nothing? Something? Anything?

PC: Well, I'm sure it was something, yeah.

LRH: Well, was it nothing? (brief pause) Something? Had you done anything? Or is this just an outright lie on Jake?

PC: No.

LRH: Did it get him in trouble?

PC: Yeah. It did get him in trouble.

LRH: All right. Who wouldn't want you to find out about it?

PC: Who wouldn't want me to find …

LRH: Yes.

PC: … me to find out about it.

LRH: Ah, that's an interesting thought, isn't it?

PC: Well, Mother wouldn't want me to find out about it, I don't think.

LRH: That's it. All right. Mother wouldn't want you to find out about it.

PC: No.

LRH: Would Jake want you to find out about something?

PC: (sigh) No.

LRH: All right. Is there a big agreement there you shouldn't find out about this?

PC: Well, an agreement there that something like that would be better forgotten, which would be something we would have had in - in our childhood.

LRH: Everybody would agree that that …

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … should better be forgotten.

PC: It should - should be forgotten. See.

LRH: When did you all decide to forget it and be friends?

PC: (chuckles) Uh…

LRH: That's it.

PC: Hm. (pause) Well, just sort of oozed into forgetfulness there.

LRH: All right. Very good. But there was an agreement there.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Very good. When was that? That's it.

PC: 1926

LRH: Very good. And what exactly happened there? Exactly what happened?

PC: Well, I get an impression only, now.

LRH: Oh, you can tell me what happened. Don't sit there reading your pictures. Tell me what happened.

PC: All right. Actually, he did try to put his penis in me.

LRH. All right. Very good. Was this your agreement?

PC: Mm-mm yes.

LRH: Or your connivance?

PC: Well, it was uh … actually, it was - this was all right to do. That's what I was …

LRH: All right. That's fine.

PC: Yeah. That s what I was trying to communicate to Mother.

LRH: It was your idea?

PC: No. I had learned a new experience.

LRH: Oh, all right Very, very good. Excellent.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And what appeared there?

PC: Well, my mother's shock, because, you see, 1 wanted to communicate to her that I had discovered something new.

LRH: Oh, I see. All right. Very good. Excellent.

PC: I didn't expect my mother to be shocked. I thought she would be pleased because I hat found out something new.

LRH: All right. Very good. And who should have found out about this in later years?

PC: (sighs) Dad.

LRH: All right. Who else should have found out about it in later years?

PC: Well, Jake should have found out about it, that I was this knuckleheaded.

LRH: All right.

PC: I didn't know that this was something should be kept secret.

LRH: Very good. And who else should have found out about it?

PC: Uh … well, my whole family should have found out that I was knuckleheaded.

LRH: All right. Very good. Very good. Okay.

Now when was this incident exactly?

PC: Huh. Well, it was in the summer of 1926. Actually, this one does feel more in place now, in '26.

LRH: Very good.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, fine.

PC: It was in the summer of 1926.

LRH: Excellent. Excellent. And is that all there is to that incident now?

PC: Mm. Yeah.

LRH: All right. Very good. And what shouldn't have appeared in that whole incident?

PC: My mother.

LRH: All right. Excellent. Excellent And who didn't find out about it?

PC: (sigh; pause) Schoolteachers. Townspeople.

LRH: Oh, very good. Excellent. Anybody else?

PC: You know, the one that's the real shouldn't-have-found-out is my stupidity there. Mmm, my brothers and sisters, particularly, shouldn't - should have found out about this one. Well, I don't know. They still shouldn't know about this.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: This stupidity.

LRH: Should they have found out about your stupidity?

PC: Well, it still isn't all right with me for them to find it out.

LRH: (chuckles) All right. Okay. Now, what we're going to do here … How do you feel about this now?

PC: Mm, better.

LRH: You feel a bit better?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: A lot better?

PC: Yeah, it's…

LRH: Have you got something a little more in place?

PC: Yeah, and it doesn't seem as hung-up.

LRH: All right. Good enough. We're not - we're not through worrying this one - that one, probably, but we're going to look some more on this line.

PC: Oh, that's fine.

LRH: All right. Now, would it be all right with you if we took a very brief break? PC: That would be wonderful.

LRH: Ten-minute break?

PC: Mm.

LRH: Would that be all right with you?

PC: Yes.

LRH: And is it all right with you if I just asked one more question here? Now, have I missed a withhold on you? Yeah, that's all right. Latent.

PC: Mm, yeah. You didn't.

LRH. Very good. Very good There was a - latent …

PC: … Mmm.

LRH: … but that's all right. I'll check it again.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Have I missed a withhold on you? There's a slight slowdown.

PC: Well, just I didn't realize it'd be this comfortable …

LRH: Oh, you didn't?

PC: … being audited by you.

LRH: (chuckles) Oh, all right.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Thank you very much. Let me check that once more. Have I missed a withhold on you? No, that's fine.

PC: Mm.

LRH: Very good. We got that. And is there anything you care to ask before I give you end of session for this break?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. Here it is. End of session.

PC: Okay. Thank you.

LRH: You bet.