LRH: we are going to give you a proper session, and we're going to do some fish and fumble there.

PC: Okay.

LRH: I told you just a moment ago, we're going to look for this tick-tick, and we're going to see if we can find this tick-tick, and find out what it was, because that had me mighty curious when I had you on the line.

PC: That was the one on — on that Prepcheck chain I went down.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Hm.

LRH: That's right. That was an interesting thing I actually did narrow it down to just that, and — since then.

PC: Hm.

LRH: so we'll see if it's still there.

PC: Great.

LRH: Okay. Is it all right with you if I begin this session now?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Good. Start of session. Has the session started for you?

PC: Yeah. Not really.

LRH: All right. All right. Here it is.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Start of session.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Okay. What goals would you like to set for this session?

PC: To be able to get to sleep easier at night. I've been having trouble getting to sleep.

LRH: All right.

PC: The last few nights. And to . . .

LRH: Good.

PC: … to stay in present time when I'm studying When I sort of run out of — get out of present time, find myself read ing over a paragraph of a bulletin or something like that without reading it.

LRH: Okay. All right. Any other goals?

PC: That ought to do it.

LRH: All right. Got an ARC break there? All right, thank you. Any goals you'd like to set for life or livingness?

PC: I'd like to — well, I have a goal: it's — it's — it's an imp — almost impossible goal, but maybe it's possible, you know?

LRH: Yeah?

PC: To get Class II by the end of the month, or by the end of this period. But, you know, it's getting pretty close there.

LRH: All right. Anything else?

PC: I'd like to be auditing next week. Start auditing.

LRH: All right.

PC: Champing at the bit. I want to — like those — a little like those commandos who want to, you know, get out.

LRH: All right. Okay, Fred. Now, look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. All right. Now, let's see. What process was working on you? It was Touch, wasn't it?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Squeeze the cans. Thank you. Put the cans down. All right. We're going to run a little bit of Touch here. All right. Touch that table. Thank you. Touch that wood. Thank you. Touch that ashtray. Thank you. Touch that chair. Thank you. Touch those cans. Good. Give them a squeeze. Squeeze 'em. All right. Squeeze 'em. Hey, that's a difference! All right, thank you. All right. That's it. Now — check this on the meter. Look around here and tell me if it's all right to audit in this room. Thank you. Relatively clean.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Just a little slowdown; doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Feel better?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Hey, what do you know? That was fast enough, wasn't it? All right. Are you willing to talk to me about your difficulties? Thank you. That's clean. Since the last time I audited you . . .

PC: A lot of water's gone under the bridge.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? I have an action there.

PC: Well, I — I — I — I got an overt against Robin, I guess.

LRH: Okay.

PC: I — I thought that was pretty clean. Anyway, when I — I left the — I left that post, I — I wrote a whole series of notes . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . explaining the job to ever — whoever. I — I addressed them to Franchise Secretary from Fred.

LRH: Hm.

PC: Whole series of notes explaining the job, explaining various aspects, vari — you know, the various things I was working on. And I — I wasn't exactly sure Robin was going to come on the post, but I was pretty sure. And — but I thought it would be kind of funny if I — you know, it would be interesting, if I . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: . . . wrote these notes and told Robin how to do the job. But anyway, it was kind of an overt on Robin.

LRH: Okay.

PC: It was.

LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything you are withholding? Got a little tick there.

PC: Well, it's uh — I uh . . .

LRH: That's it.

PC: . . . this friend of mine — it's about this — this . . . Remember about — suspicions about that key and about . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . this friend ? This is about that key. I — I never got in touch with him. I wrote him a letter . . .

LRH: Hm-mm.

PC: . . . saying, "Oh, you know, gee, I haven't seen you, and give me a call." I got the letter back — no — n-n-not at — not at that address.

LRH: All right.

PC: You know? And I was, you know, wondering what — what happened. Something's — something's wrong there, you see?

LRH: Hm-mm.

PC: I have to check in . . .

LRH: Hm.

PC: . . . because, (a) he wouldn't move without letting me know his new address.

LRH: Hm.

PC: Um — (b) I might have wrote it to the wrong address . . .

LRH: Hm.

PC: . . . but I — I — I don't think so.

LRH: Mm-mm.

PC: And something wrong there. I have to look into that.

LRH: All right. Very good. All right. Let me check this on the meter.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? Little tick, much smaller.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: That's it.

PC: I had a party at my place, and some girls over, and kind of a wild party.

LRH: All right. Okay.

PC: I told you about that, I think . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . probably the group, you know . . .

LRH: Okay.

PC: . . . but not about that party.

LRH: All right. Let me check that on the meter. Since the last time I audited you, have you done anything that you are withholding? That's cleaner than a wolf's tooth. Very good?

PC: Yep.

LRH: All right. Do you have a present time problem? Thank you. That's clean. Okay. Now, I told you about fishing around here.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And we're going to do some fish and fumble . . .

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: . . . see where we wind up here. And mysteriously, I have no tick-tick.

PC: Well…

LRH: Obviously, you're . . . What were you going to say?

PC: I don't know. It was on that chain, and it was on that past life, or connected u with it.

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: Maybe if I found that again and I could — I don't know if it was that or something else, or what.

LRH: Well, that, you know . . .

PC: It was something — it was something about messing with little girls . . .

LRH: Yeah?

PC: . . . you knows?

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Something — messing with little girls . . .

LRH: There it is. There it is. There it is.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Ha-ha, ha-ha!

PC: Uhh.

LRH: All right. Well, we didn't have to fish very long there, did we?

PC: No.

LRH: Something about messing with little girls.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And just like that, we get it back. All right, let me check it now.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay? What about messing with little girls? Well, that isn't quite the tick-tick.

PC: No.

LRH: Now, let me see if we can get it just a little closer than that. There it is. What did you just think of?

PC: Dang! I — I — I just look — kind of looked at a little something there, and kind of looked away. I can't — you know, sort of a hunk of something, you know?

LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

PC: One of those gray hunks of something . . .

LRH: That's right.

PC: … that don't have any definite . . .

LRH: There it is again.

PC: I — it looks like a — a rocket ship nose, or something, or — or a bomb nose, or something like this. I don't know.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Is that it, or . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: … or not? I . . .

LRH: Well, let me check this over again. What about messing with little girls? Ahh, there — there's a tiny little slowdown there.

PC: I looked at that thing again, when you mentioned it.

LRH: Something here about messing with little girls in the nose of a rocket ship?

PC: I — that's what the — I looked at that, and there was something connected there or someplace; I don't know what.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: But, you see, it . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: It's a — it's kind of a, you know, what's happening here? You know? How come — how come this connects up like this or something like that, you know ?

LRH: All right. Well, I'll find it.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: I'll find it. Now — there it is! Who are you looking at?

PC: Well, it — that was th-th-those two little girls that we talked about in that Prepchecking session that I . . .

LRH: That's it.

PC: … those two twins.

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: They were either twins or — or sisters that I messed with . . .

LRH: Uh-uh.

PC: … in — back in early — early days in my life.

LRH: That's it.

PC: I was ten years old, or so. And so . . .

LRH: And we were going down that chain.

PC: Yeah. Yeah. We kind of went past them, and . . .

LRH: All right. Let me see if I can get a What question that's right into the middle there.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls? That's it.

PC: Is it?

LRH: I get a tinier, smaller read.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: I might be able to vary that just a little bit. There it is. What's that?

PC: That's a picture of sexually interfering with a little girl.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: I don't think it's this lifetime. I mean, I don't know . . .

LRH: Well, that doesn't matter.

PC: Yeah. That's that sex pervert or . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . probably a sex-pervert thing. But that's tied up with that other — that — that . . . Well, it — I — I think it's the same little girl as in that other picture I've had so many years, I looked at.

LRH: What was that? The . . .

PC: The one of having a little girl with her panties down, and with a — switching her.

LRH: Hm.

PC: And seeing — this picture is seeing an — an older man do this. Watching it from the bushes, something like this . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . in — in the yard of this . . .

LRH: Right.

PC: . . . place with . . .

LRH: Right.

PC: . . . a stream going by or something like that.

LRH: Right.

PC: I've had that picture so long, you know?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And this — I'm not sure if it's the same girl or not.

LRH: All right. Now, hold your cans still there and let me check it.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me check another little What here.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What about punishing little girls? Clean.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What about sexually interfering with little girls? It's not giving me the same read as the double tick.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: There — what's that?

PC: Switching little girls.

LRH: What about switching little girls? That isn't it.

PC: Eating little girls?

LRH: Beating little girls?

PC: Beating or eating?

LRH: Eating

PC: Eating little girls.

LRH: All right. What about eating little girls? Well, I get a something of a reaction there. What about eating little girls? It cleaned.

PC: Hm.

LRH: All right. Let me try another What question here. What about stealing little girls? I get an action here.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: You see, the reason I'm putting that together isn't a shot in the dark. you were talking about taking over a body before this lifetime.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: See, and I was . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: . . . getting a reaction on that. Now, what about taking over little girls? I don't get the same reaction.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: What about stealing little girls? I get an instant read on that. What about stealing little girls? It's not the same instant read I'm fishing for, however.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: There it is. There it is. It was just for a minute and we went by it.

PC: Boy, that's awfully fast, you know? It's — it's . . . Boy, it's something that's really occluded.

LRH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PC: Ha! No — all around it, but I can't . . .

LREI: All right.

PC: . . . can't get to it.

LRH: All right.

PC: But I keep popping — keep thinking about — on the same line, I don't know if it's just jazz chat or what. But some incident I ran — some past life incident, way back.

LRH: Hm-mm.

PC: Spaceship — just wound up taking over the . . . Supposed to burn off this planet and save one city and rape the city, or something like that.

LRH: What's this now? Take a . . .

PC: I — I — I.

LRH: . . . a burner . . .

PC: Yeah, to burn off the whole planet.

LRH: Oh, you burnt off a whole — I got it.

PC: Yeah, I was supposed to blow — burn the whole thing off, but I saved one city, and I raped the city before I burned it off

LRH: Yeah.

PC: And part of that was it — at least as I came up in — I don't know, it — hell, it picked them — I mean, it's just not . . .

LRH: Well, now there — there's the double tick.

PC: Yeah? It's — I take — took all the — asked all the five-year-old girls in the — all the five-year-old blond little girls in the town into the palace, and raped them all.

LRH: Hm-hm. We're getting the tick-tick.

PC: Yeah. Huh!

LRH: we did.

PC: And then — did that and my — I ordered my men, or my men and I raped — raped all these little girls . . .

LRH: Mm-m. There's your tick-tick.

PC: . . . five-year-old girls. And then afterward, we burned the city off.

LRH: All right. Let's see if I can make up a What here.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What about raping a city? All right. What about raping little girls? What about raping little girls? No. What about that auditing session? What about that auditing session that you ran that in? That's it. There's a latent on that.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: All right. What auditor was that?

PC: Think it was Stan.

LRH: Who?

PC: Stan Stromfeld.

LRH: Yeah?

PC: Think it was him. Must have been him.

LRH: Was it? I don't get a reaction here.

PC: No?

LRH: Was it Stan Stromfeld that ran that? I don't get any reaction on that.

PC: I'll be darned.

LRH: Somebody earlier than that?

PC: Janine? No. Unless it was New York. Oh, maybe it was Doris. Marge ? Damn. I don — I can't remember . . .

LRH: All right. Let's put it together here.

PC: … who it was. Raping — past lives and . . .

LRH: There — you got the — there's the ghost of a tick.

PC: Denise?

LRH: Yeah. There it is. Microscopically smaller.

PC: Yeah, I know it. you . . . Something there.

LRH: I just want to know what auditor it was.

PC: …I'm not sure. you know? I mean, I — I — I don't really get anything.

LRH: All right. Well, let me help you out, may I?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Was it a girl auditor? Was it a male auditor? Male auditor.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Did it happen in the United States? Did it happen in Paris? All right, did it happen in Paris? Now I've got a double tick.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What are you thinking about? Happening in Paris?

PC: Vincent? Mario? Maybe it was Jack Campbell.

LRH: All right. Was it Jack Campbell?

PC: Maybe it was.

LRH: All right. Was that auditor Jack Campbell?

PC: Yeah, I guess it was.

LRH: There's something here about it now.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: I'm gettin . . .

PC: Yeah, I guess it was. 'Cause he — he — he — he ran me on RT-3, think it was — OT-3.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: And it kind of went way back . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: … into a lot of stuff . . .

LRH: Now we're getting a double tick here.

PC: … past life stuff. Yeah. There was that.

LRH: All right. You remember this now?

PC: Yeah, yeah.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay. And, now, did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you?

PC: Undoubtedly! No doubt.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah, I think he did.

LRH: All right. All right. Okay. Let me check that on the meter. Did Jack Campbell miss a withhold on you? I get a reaction.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now . . .

PC: It — it's like saying, did Jack Campbell ever and it you ? You know, I mean, it's like the same question. In fast, it was — it was funny.

LRH: Now, we're taking off from that as a Zero question.

PC: All right. Ooh.

LRH: All right.

PC: There must be something there? Line charge? Or something.

LRH: Okay. Now let me check out a possible One.

PC: All right.

LRH: Okay. What did you successfully hide from Jack Campbell? All right, let me check that. Now let me check another one. What have you done to Jack Campbell? Well, we're going to take that first.

PC: Yeah, it would be a good idea, I think.

LRH: Rightly or wrongly, we will take that first, because it'll flatten rather rapidly.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. We will test that now. We know that you have withheld from him.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: All right. Would that be doing something to him?

PC: The action of withholding from him?

LRH: Yeah, we actually are wrong here in phrasing this What question . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: . . . but I'm just testing this thing Is there a specific overt?

PC: Uh…

LRH: I get a tick.

PC: Yeah. It — it's a kind of a — a specific overt, many times, in a sense, you know?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: Well, the first overt, really, is that I considered that kind of — something was not quite right, or I didn't quite . . . Well, when I first took the Communication Course in Paris, this . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . you know, in Scientology — the Scientology Communication Course — you take the Communication Course.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: I — I didn't have the money for the course, and I told him that — oh, I was — I — I knew he liked me.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: All right, I knew he and Gernie liked me, I knew they were interested in me, they liked my work in the theater, blah-blah-blah.

LRH: Hm.

PC: And so I said, "Well, I — I — well, I — I'm — gee, I'd like to take this course, Jack, but I — you know, I can't pay for it. Don't have the money."

LRH: Hm.

PC: Like that. Now, I might have been able to serape the money up if I had really — you know. you know, if he'd said, "Well, no, you go after the money and come and take the course."

LRH: All right.

PC: But he said — '7 don't have the money. I — I can't take this . . ." and he said, "All right. It's all right," he said, "We — we want you to get the course. You can pay me later. "I said, "Fine."

LRH: Well, tell me this now. Good. Tell me this now: Was that — the question we're on is doing something to him. Now, what specifically did you do to him there?

PC: I kind of conned him into — I conned him into giving me the course for nothing You know?

LRH: All right. Good. You conned him into it.

PC: Yeah. After — yeah . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … a fashion.

LRH: That's it. All right. Now, what about conning Jack Campbell?

PC: Yeah, that's a good What question.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah. That's a good What question. Very good.

LRH: Good. Well, that's the one we are going to work.

PC: Yeah, it makes me sweat a little bit.

LRH: All right. Very good. When was that?

PC: Summer of 1968.

LRH: Very good. Is that all there is to it?

PC: Oh, I thought, well, if — you know, what do I have to lose here, you know? Nothing — nothing in this course, and, well, figured on paying him later on.

LRH: All right. Good enough. All right. And what might have appeared there?

PC: Well, I could have shake — shaken some money up from someplace, I think . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … to pay for it.

LRH: Very good. And who didn't find out about that?

PC: Well, Jack didn't. I — I — I — the fact I could have gotten the money someplace to pay for it, I think.

LRH: All right.

PC: You know.

LRH: Very, very good. Okay. When was that? Very specifically.

PC: July of — gee, the Moscow Art Theatre was in town.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: I think it was the end of June. I think it was the end of June. End of June in 1968.

LRH: All right. Good. And what else is there about this?

PC: Well, I — I — I — I went on and took the course, and conned him again into giving me the HPA Course without paying for it over there.

LRH: All right. Okay. And what didn't appear there?

PC: Fifty thousand francs for the HPA Course.

LRH: Oh-ho-ho, I see.

PC: Still hasn't appeared.

LRH: All right. And who didn't find out about that?

PC: Well, the — the people who I owed money to didn't find out that I was spending more money or, you know . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: … putting myself into more debt . . .

LRH: I see.

PC: … in a sense.

LRH: All right.

PC: Kind of a little bit of an overt against them. Very funny.

LRH: What?

PC: Just getting more debts without paying them off

LRH: I see.

PC: You know, something like that.

LRH: All right. Very good. Very good. All right. Now, let's test this What question.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? Have to test it again: What about conning Jack Campbell? That seems to have a tiny little bit of reaction on it. Let me ask you this. Is there any earlier moment there? Is there anything earlier, before that Comm Course? What's that?

PC: Yeah, had coffee or something with Jack and Gernie…

LRH: Yeah?

PC: . . . and — 7 — Jack paid for the coffee or the drink or something — earlier, when I first met him. And I kind of conned him there a little bit. you know, he paid for the drink.

LRH: All right. Well, when was that?

PC: Was after a play. It — it was — well, it must have been after a — it must have been that spring, along in March or something like that.

LRH: Get a tick-tick.

PC: Yeah. In March . . .

LRH: Yeah. All right. Good enough.

PC: . . . that year. Yeah.

LRH: All right. What else is there to that?

PC: I just — that was the first time I saw him. That night.

LRH: That's the first time you ever saw him?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Yeah. Bang

PC: Yeah. Gernie invited me for a drink after an American Embassy Little Theatre group . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . production.

LRH: All right.

PC: I'm not sure if it was hers or somebody else's. And — with her and Jack, and I saw this character first appear.

LRH: All right. Okay. And what might have appeared there?

PC: Hm. Well, I don't know. A couple of hundred francs from my pocket, I guess, to pay for the drinks, could have appeared.

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: I think I was broke, or something, and I had to con him. you know, I couldn't pay the drink. I don't think I had any money on me, or something like this. It was funny.

LRH: All right. Very good. who didn't find out about it?

PC: Well Jack and — Jack and Gernie didn't.

LRH: All right. Very good. Very good. All right. Let me test this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell? Still got an action. Did you meet him any earlier than that?

PC: Not that I know of

LRH: Ah-ah-ah.

PC: Yeah?

LRH: You meet Jack Campbell earlier than that?

PC: Man, I don't remember if I do.

LRH: Come on, come on, come on. Did you meet him earlier than that? I got a reaction here.

PC: No.

LRH: Let me test this very carefully, before I send you off on a wild-goose chase.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than that? You've got a reaction here, man.

PC: I'll be darned. Jack Campbell earlier.

LRH: Yes, Jack Campbell earlier.

PC: I knew Gernie before I knew Jack.

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: The first I remember Gernie is meeting her after one of my productions there.

LRH: All right.

PC: And, I heard about Jack. Damn! Or something, and I was kind of curious about him.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And…

LRH: What are you plowing around with there? You got a double tick.

PC: Yeah. It was meeting Gernie . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: … after that production . . .

LRH: Right.

PC: … in — in — in the foyer of the . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … American Students and Artists Center . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: … and — this — there's some unknown there. I can't remember about this — that . . . Something . . . I — I wondered where Jack was, or something like this. I'd never met him, you see?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: But I wondered where Jack was . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: … or something. You know? I mean, there's — there's something like that.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: This — about all I got.

LRH: All right. Just experimentally, was there a desire to withhold yourself from meeting Jack? No. All right. Let me check this What question again: What about conning Jack Campbell? Still reacts.

PC: I intended on meeting Gernie . . .

LRH: Good.

PC: … I intended to get — get her interested in my theater project.

LRH: Ah!

PC: And maybe that's conning Jack a little bit, by getting Gernie interested.

LRH: All right.

PC: Inadvertently conning Jack — conning Gernie into — into getting her to back my theater project.

LRH: All right.

PC: Because I heard she was important, you know . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … she had connections . . .

LRH: Now we got little tick-tick. Yeah.

PC: … and money, and — yeah — money and connections, and . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … may — maybe it's kind of overt against Jack, and conning him too, or something.

LRH: Well, you don't have to add it up to him. Were you trying . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … to con Gernie?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Hm?

PC: Yeah, yeah.

LRH: Oh, yeah.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now is there a missed withhold right there at that meeting?

PC: First meeting with Jack? Yeah.

LRH: No. With Gernie.

PC: Gernie.

LRH: There a missed withhold there with Gernie? What would it be? What didn't she find out about?

PC: on me? Gee, I don't know. That — well, the first I — when I first met her, I — I didn't — here was this big, fat woman here, you know?

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Yeah. And — but — had a lot of — pretty alive, you know? Gernie is pretty alive.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: She — and she was interested in — in — in me because she had seen the production and liked it. And I didn't know who she was.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: She — very nice talking, and gets — I got some admiration there, and stuff like this . . .

LRH: Hm.

PC: . . . you know, it was nice.

LRH: Well, have you answered the auditing question there? Is there a missed withhold from Gernie? I haven't got a reaction on it.

PC: No, I — I — I can't think of any.

LRH: All right. Now, let me test this What question again, huh?

PC: Hm.

LRH: All right. What about conning Jack? Now, we've still got a little tick here.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Did you meet Jack Campbell — coming back to one we had before . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: . . . did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this? All right. Let me ask you once more. Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this? I'm not getting a reaction on that.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Ill — Ill say it once more, because you're getting dives here.

PC: Hm.

LRH: Did you meet Jack Campbell earlier than this? No, that's clean.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now, is there a meeting between that first meeting with Gernie and what you were saying was the first meeting with Jack . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: . . . when he bought the drinks?

PC: The meeting with Gernie? Between that time?

LRH: Yeah, well, is that — is . . . Yeah, yeah. Is there a second meeting with Gernie before you met Jack?

PC: Gee, I sure got it occluded if there is. There must — I . . .

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: . . . yeah, there must have been. There must have been.

LRH: Uh-huh. We got a . . .

PC: Must have been.

LRH: The double action is on there.

PC: Yeah. Funny, I've a little charge, too.

LRH: What goes on here?

PC: Gee. I'm just trying to think of what it was.

LRH: All right. Good. Good.

PC: Yeah. You know, it must have been, because by the time I met Jack, Gernie and I were already good friends, you know, there . . .

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: Wonder what happened in there.

LRH: Yeah. All right. When might that have been?

PC: March? Well, yes. I first met her, right . . . God, 58. What was that, Streetcar Named Desire?

LRH: Hm?

PC: Yeah. Streetcar Named Desire. I first met her then, when — when she was — it must have been after Street — no, it must hare been sooner than Streetcar. Man, I've got so much confusion through this period, you know?

LRH: Interesting.

PC: It's interesting.

LRH: All right.

PC: Uh…

LRH: Okay. Well, how can I help you out there?

PC: Well, I — I — I — I'm not sure what you — what to look for now. I kind of got lost off of that . . .

LRH: All right. Now, I asked you if there was a meeting . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … with Gernie, before you — from that — between that first meeting . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … and when you met Jack. I was asking you . . .

PC: Yeah, there must have been several of them.

LRH: … when was that period?

PC: Yeah. I can't remember when I first met Gernie.

LRH: That's it.

PC: Do you follow?

LRH: That's it. We haven't got the first meeting spotted, have we?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Well, when might it have been?

PC: I — it seems to me it was after Waiting for Godot. I — I — after I did that production. And that was in — sp — well, spring of 57. Yeah.

LRH: We're getting a bit of reaction there.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Is that all there is to that meeting now?

PC: Yeah. You mean that meeting with Gernie?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: Yeah. Far as — yeah.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: Far as I know.

LRH: All right. What didn't appear there?

PC: Well, Jack didn't.

LRH: All right. Okay. Did you particularly want him to appear on that scene?

PC: No, I didn't even know about him existing, you see, at that — at that point, really.

LRH: Oh, you didn't know he existed at all?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. Very good. All right. And who didn't find out about that first meeting? I got a reaction.

PC: Oh, the — yeah, the — the people that ran the American Students and Artists Center didn't find out about that.

LRH: Oh, yeah. All right. Very good.

PC: 'Cause they were supporting me, they were behind me, and it was kind of — I don't know.

LRH: Well?

PC: I was — l was getting support from other people too. Confused. I was, you know, very confused there.

LRH: Well, all right. Now we're getting onto something interesting While they were supporting you, were you looking for support from other people?

PC: Yeah, for my — well, not really. But I felt kind of guilty about — people would off — or something. You know, I'd — I'd get admiration and stuff like this. I was becoming an independent figure, you see?

LRH: I see.

PC: Kind of like this.

LRH: I see.

PC: In a sense.

LRH: All right. Good enough.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me check this over now. Another What question here incidental, just to be checked.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie? Now there's a double tick on these meetings with Gernie.

PC: They're certainly occluded, in through here.

LRH: There it is.

PC: There's a year . . .

LRH: There it is.

PC: See, there's a year going through there . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: . . . about that.

LRH: Hm.

PC: You know.

LRH: I'm going to put that down as a . . .

PC: Boy, I sure had trouble with Gernie later on, so there must be — there must be something in there.

LRH: Yeah? You do something to her?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: What?

PC: Oh — I — later on there, I fought with her, you know?

LRH: All right.

PC: Fought with her . . .

LRH: Did you do something to her specifically? We got a tick.

PC: Yeah. I — yeah, one time she wanted to — she wanted to come and have supper with me. I told her no, I was going to go with some other people.

LRH: Hm-km.

PC: I — I — you know, kind of pushed her away.

LRH: You what?

PC: I kind of repulsed her.

LRH: All right.

PC: Repulsed her and . . .

LRH: Well, let me ask this question: What about refusing Gernie? No, that isn't live. It isn't quite right. What would you do to Gernie? You repulsed her, then.

PC: That time. Yeah.

LRH: Well, when was that?

PC: Was quite a bit later. This — I was back . . .

LRH: Well, when was it?

PC: Nineteen — Jesus — Sixty. Spring of 60.

LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: March of 60.

LRH: Is that all there is to it?

PC: Well, there's other stuff during that incident. She was producing; I was directing a production there.

LRH: Ah. You were working with her.

PC: Yeah, working together.

LRH: Oh, all right.

PC: Long time.

LRH: Good. All right. And what didn't appear there?

PC: In that particular instance there of repulsing her? Well, some friendliness on my part didn't appear.

LRH: All right. Very good. And who didn't find out about it?

PC: Well, Gernie didn't, really.

LRH: Okay. Thank you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me ask you a couple of just leading questions here, could I?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Is there any affair — is there any affair with Gernie? Is there any refusal to have an affair with Gernie?

PC: Yeah. Not — do you mean love affair? Or . . .

LRH: Yeah, I don't care.

PC: Yeah. It was never — it was — it was neither way, you know? It was — we got together one time and — on this American Theatre Association thing, and she said, "Fred," she said, "I'd help you, but I want something out of it."

LRH: Hm.

PC: And I — at that time I — I — I — I wondered — I had the consideration that, well, people should help me because they should help me, you know? Not because they want something out of me.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: You know ? Very . . .

LRH: All right. We're on the double-tick line.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Go on.

PC: Yeah. And that — that I deserve to be helped. You know?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: I — I — and I don't — I don't need to give anything in return.

LRH: Ah.

PC: Except my — my "contribution of art to the world, "you know?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: Or something like that — some jazz like that. I'm important enough, and I´m — you know, I should be helped and not be bothered about things like this, and what have you. I — I kind of left her with a maybe on that whole thing.

LRH: What did she mean by, she expected something out of it? What do you think she meant?

PC: Well, she — she expected to direct a play now and then, when she wanted to, you know . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . enter in artistically into the thing And I wasn't interested in letting her do this. I didn't consider her capable at the time of . . .

LRH: Did she ever find out about this?

PC: She never found out about that, no.

LRH: Oh. Is there a consistent withhold here on the subject of her capability?

PC: There certainly is, yeah. Certainly is. Certainly is. All through — all through our relationship. Kind of culminating up into producing this play . . .

LRH: Hm.

PC: … together.

LRH: Hm.

PC: I found out, in working together, that she was very capable.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Before that — you know.

LRH: You had an opinion through that period?

PC: Yeah. Yeah.

LRH: All right. She didn't find out about this at any time?

PC: No.

LRH: Did Jack ever find out about this?

PC: No.

LRH: Might Jack have found out about this when he was auditing you?

PC: Yeah, he might have, if he'd . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … asked me.

LRH: Is there anything else about Gernie that Jack might have found out about? That's it.

PC: I — I had a feeling she was interested in me as a man, you see, sexually.

LRH: I see.

PC: I couldn't — you know. I wouldn't want Jack to know that, that I kind of got the idea from her. Not through any really terribly overt — kind of covertly, I mean.

LRH: I see.

PC: And I wouldn't want Jack to know about that.

LRH: All right. All right. Now let me disentangle . . .

PC: Yes.

LRH: … all of this a little bit here.

PC: Right.

LRH: And let me ask that question again, check it on the meter.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Might Jack have found out something about you and Gernie when he was auditing you? Getting a little action on this.

PC: Seems to be something else.

LRH: It's what something else?

PC: He might have found something else out — something else about me and Gernie, beside what I said.

LRH: Something else . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … than this capability thing

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Was there anything else to find out? Got a reaction.

PC: I didn't like her!

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: I didn't like her.

LRH: Good. Well, might he have practically blown your head off if he'd fount out about your opinions with Gernie? What do you think? Something going on here.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

PC: Yeah. I — I — I don't know — I — my considerations at the time or my considerations now?

LRH: Your considerations at the time.

PC: At the time. Well, you know, I — he might have — he might not have liked me, or something like that. But that's the missed withhold.

LRH: All right. Very good. All right. Let me check this lineup now.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay? What about conning Jack Campbell? Got a reaction.

PC: Hm.

LRH: Instant reaction.

PC: Hm.

LRH: But it's not now the dirty needle reaction.

PC: Yeah. I mean, there are some other times when I conned him, kind of

LRH: oh, just give me a rapid rundown. What's the relationship here?

PC: Well, I — I — I got some books from him and never paid him for the books.

LRH: All right. Good. Thank you. Any other one?

PC: Oh, I — I — I was going to trade twenty-five hours of auditing with him.

LRH: Hm-m.

PC: That's — that was a con, because he was a better auditor than I was.

LRH: All right. Okay.

PC: Actually I got twelve and a half.

LRH: Good. Good.

PC: Uh…

LRH: Any others?

PC: Can't think of any right now.

LRH: All right. What?

PC: No, it's a motivator.

LRH: Well, that's all right. What's the motivator? Perfectly all right with me.

PC: Yeah. Well, there's — there was — there was some confusion with him about when I was on the course — when he came on the ACC over here. That's . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . when he was a student on an ACC. He and Vincent came over here. And — well, no, there — th-th-th-th-there's an overt in there. Yeah.

LRH: Yeah, that's what I was going to just ask for, but you saved me the trouble.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. What's the overt?

PC: There's an overt in there. He left Mario and myself to teach the course there. Mm?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And we were supposed to work together in teaching the course.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: But Mario went on a concert tour, didn't come back.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: See? And he was supposed to come back in a week, didn't come back.

LRH: Hm.

PC: . . . at all, you know. But I went ahead and taught the course, myself

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And spent the time blaming Jack, kind of, for not — you know, for Mario — to let Mario — Jack, everybody else, whereby . . . The overt was — golly, it's kind of — there's something to do with holding down the whole thing by myself . . .

LRH: Hm.

PC: . . . and proving to them that they were no good, or something like this. you know, I don't know.

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: Something like that.

LRH: Good enough. Thank you. All right, let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell? All right. I don't know if that was a reaction or not, I'll check it again.

PC: Hm.

LRH: What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got some kind of a reaction. Let's get the 1B checked here.

PC: All right.

LRH: What about these meetings with Gernie? All right, let me check it again. What about these meetings with Gernie? That is clean.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now let me check the first one again. What about conning Jack Campbell? Let me check it again. What about conning Jack Campbell? I've still got a reaction on that.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: It's much quieter.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Everything is smoothing out. There is something else here. Is that the first meeting you had with Jack Campbell?

PC: Yeah!

LRH: Was it?

PC: Yeah!

LRH: All right.

PC: Far as I know.

LRH: Now, did you and Gernie talk about Jack Campbell? All right. There's no reaction there.

PC: Hm-m.

LRH: Is there any other con there that you might have skipped? Did you ever borrow money from him, or . . .

PC: Yeah. Yeah.

LRH: . . . never paid it back? You so far have just mentioned course fees, and so forth. Did you ever borrow money and not pay it back?

PC: I think I paid all the money back I borrowed from him.

LRH: I get no reaction on it.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Did you ever take a girl away from him?

PC: No.

LRH: Did you ever steal anything off of him?

PC: No.

LRH: All right. Did you ever take a fee while you were teaching there and didn't pay it back, or something like that?

PC: No. No.

LRH: Huh?

PC: No. Huh.

LRH: What do you mean?

PC: Oh, yeah!

LRH: What?

PC: Yeah, I just remembered an overt I got against him . . .

LRH: Yeah, all right.

PC: . . . on that.

LRH: What is it?

PC: While I was there, teaching — you know, teaching the course, holding things down, his — I'd use his office, you know, I mean, his office there.

LRH: Yeah, yeah.

PC: And he said, well, I wasn't supposed to go in the bottom left-hand drawer of his desk.

LRH: Right.

PC: I'm not supposed to touch that bottom left-hand drawer.

LRH: Okay.

PC: And so I went in the bottom — so I did go in the bottom left-hand drawer . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: . . . and rummaged around there a bit, and found some dirty pictures down there.

LRH: Okay.

PC: And never told him about that. Never told him about it.

LRH: Okay. Did he audit you after that?

PC: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

LRH: All right. Thank you. Thank you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Good enough. Now let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell? Well, this is getting to look much cleaner.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. What about conning Jack Campbell? I am not now getting an instant read . . .

PC: Hm.

LRH: . . . but it's a little bit before, and it's a little bit after.

PC: Yeah. Well, there's a lot of — must be a lot of — several other things I have done to him, you know?

LRH: Well, think of any offhand?

PC: Hm, hm, hm.

LRH: What's that?

PC: Oh, well, I — yeah. I conned him there.

LRH: What?

PC: I took the test, my final exam paper . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: . . . from the HPA, home, and did it at home . . .

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: . . . in a sense. That's sort of a con. Well, yeah, because I — I — I went home and I — actually, when I took this paper home, I thought it was a joke about learning the Axioms. I — I — you know, learning, memorizing all those Axioms. That was silly.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And when I — I came — I brought it back. I copied them out of the book, you know.

LRH: Hm.

PC: Brought them back, you know, I brought them back. And he looked at it, and he checked it over, with me there, and he saw that everything was perfect in it.

LRH: Hm-m.

PC: You know? And he looked at me kind of funny, like "Well, you got it right."

LRH: Hm.

PC: I conned him there, because I realized when he looked at me funny that I — it wasn't a joke. I should have memorized those Axioms.

LRH: Oh, I get you.

PC: And I — I hadn't.

LRH: All right.

PC: And — and at that moment I knew that — really that — that I hadn't. You know, I mean, I should have, or something, you know ?

LRH: Hm-hm, yeah.

PC: And I conned him there.

LRH: Okay.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: we got it taped now.

PC: Hm.

LRH: All right. Let me check this question again. What about conning Jack Campbell? This looks fairly clean.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: I'll check it just one more time. What about conning Jack Campbell? I haven't got anything on it.

PC: Hm.

LRH: That's clean.

PC: That was a — that was a — actually, that was the big one there. I mean, that — that one there.

LRH: Yeah. That cleaned it. All right.

PC: Funny, because I told you about that once, but it wasn't — it wasn't as precise.

LRH: It wasn't "who missed the withhold," was it?

PC: Yeah. Yeah.

LRH: Yeah. Now, all right. Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking?

PC: Nope.

LRH: All right. Are you sure of that?

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Anything you care to say before we leave this Prepchecking?

PC: Now about the double tick? Is that off ?

LRH: I knew there was — I can't find it.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: It started disappearing when we cleaned up Gernie.

PC: Hm. Hm.

LRH: And I haven't seen it.

PC: Hm?

LRH: But you ask about it there. There's . . .

PC: Hm.

LRH: … there's a wide motion, there's a wider motion.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: It's about so long, but it isn't the tick I had in the first place.

PC: Hm.

LRH: I've got a tick here of some kind or another.

PC: Hm.

LRH: It's not a tick. I've got a — a stop and a sweep.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: But I was looking for a dirty little tick-tick.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And it seems to have dived for cover at the moment.

PC: Hm.

LRH: There — no, there it is again.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Why? What are you thinking of, as you think of that?

PC: I don't know. That's the funny thing, you see? I kind of look at something. I kind of look at an area of the bank.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: You know, or something, or a piece of a ridge there, or something like that.

LRH: Well, that's all right.

PC: You know ? And I get it there . . .

LRH: It's all right. It's all right. Okay.

PC: I can bring it back by sweeping, you know? Scanning across.

LRH: Well, try it — to bring it back.

PC: 1b bring it back? It's — I don't know.

LRH: Yeah. A little bit. Little bit.

PC: Yeah, there's a little button there, it's — push — I don't know.

LRH: All right. There it is.

PC: Creeps up on me. I was just trying there . . .

LRH: All right. But do you think we've attained anything there, on that?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah, yeah.

LRH: All right.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Okay. Now, let's see what we've got here. Okay?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you told me any half-truth? What's the half-truth? That's it.

PC: Oh, about writing those things for Robin, maybe. That's what I thought of . . .

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: … right there.

LRH: Thank you. I'll check it on the meter. Have you told me any half-truth? Got it. Check, bang It reacts.

PC: Hm-hm. Half-truths. Gee, I don't know.

LRH: Hm?

PC: I don't know what it Was.

LRH: Think of anything at all? What's that?

PC: Oh, well, there must be some other things with Jack, I think.

LRH: Oh, all right.

PC: You know.

LRH: All right.

PC: I was . . .

LRH: You weren't satisfied that the What question was clean?

PC: Yeah, I was satisfied.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: There was probably other things on the chain there along some — you know, little ones . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … like that, but not enough to . . .

LRH: Okay.

PC: Hm.

LRH: Thank you. I'll check the auditing question. Have you told me any half-truth? Clean. Untruth? What's the untruth?

PC: Untruth.

LRH: That's it. Untruth.

PC: About Gernie? I don't know.

LRH: Think of an untruth?

PC: Well, she didn't actually — I don't think she really ever really insinuated that she was interested in me, sexually.

LRH: Ah.

PC: You know? I — it — I think it was mainly my own ideas or something. You know, I mean, I kind of switched things around or something.

LRH: All right. Okay. Have you told me any untruth? Got a reaction.

PC: Hm. Huh, I don't know what it is. Untruth.

LRH: There's something

PC: I don't know what it is.

LRH: Something there.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. I'll ask the question again.

PC: Yeah. Yeah.

LRH: Your answer is you don't know what it is?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Thank you.

PC: I- I got an idea.

LRH: What is it?

PC: Something about beginning rudiments.

LRH: Did you think one of them was still hot?

PC: Maybe I had kind of a suspicion or something. I wasn't sure.

LRH: Oh, yeah?

PC: Well, it could of — yeah, well, kind of a — of a missed withhold or something, you know?

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: I was — I was — when you said — when you asked about a present time problem, I had a tiny present time problem that I haven't been able to get to sleep too well . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: … over the last week or so.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: And I thought that it might show up. And then it didn't show up. And I thought it might show up, and uh — but it didn't show up.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And so I thought maybe that was something wrong there.

LRH: All right. Is there an untruth? Was any of that an untruth?

PC: No, no, there wasn't an untruth on that.

LRH: Well, was it an untruth? Did you tell me that it . . . ?

PC: An untruth, huh?

LRH: Thinking of something there.

PC: Well, yeah. If I said I had a present time problem and it didn't react on the meter, then it would be an untruth.

LRH: Is that right?

PC: Yes.

LRH: Is that what occurred?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: You're not sure?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Is that your answer?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Very good. I will check that. All right. Have you told me an untruth? I get a reaction. Let me check it again . . .

PC: Hm.

LRH: … because you got a pretty dirty needle.

PC: \ Yeah.

LRH: Have you told me an untruth?

PC: Gee, I don't know what it is.

LRH: This is very equivocal.

PC: Yeah?

LRH: Do you have a guilty conscience about telling untruths or something of the sort here? This is not getting the same reaction . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: . . . constantly at all.

PC: I — I — I have a guilty conscience. It's just, you know, a general one-has-a-guilty-conscience guilty conscience, you know?

LRH: Well, does that upset you that I asked you if you've told an untruth?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Is that what this is falling on?

PC: Yeah, maybe.

LRH: Well, is it or isn't it?

PC: Yeah, I didn't expect it to fall.

LRH: Oh, all right. Okay.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Let me check it again. Have you told me an untruth? Now, I still get a reaction on this. That's it.

PC: Oh. About my friend with the letter?

LRH: All right.

PC: My friend ?

LRH: Well, what's the untruth there? That's it.

PC: Well, I'm not — I'm not absolutely positive I wrote it to the right address. Huh? Have to go back, I have to check my — my address book . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . to make sure, because I just — I wrote the address out, you know . . .

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: . . . after having remembered it. And I'm not — I have to check my address book.

LRH: All right. Thank you. Is there an untruth in that anyplace?

PC: Well, I said that . . .

LRH: What was the untruth?

PC: Hm.

LRH: That's it.

PC: Well, that he — that I'm sure — well, that I'm sure that he would have — would have told me if he had moved.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: You know.

LRH: All right.

PC: And maybe he wouldn't have. I'm not sure that he would have told me that he moved.

LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: Right.

LRH: Very good. Have you told me an untruth? All right. That's clean. Or said something only to impress me? I'll check that again. Have you said something only to impress me? Have you said something only to impress me? I haven't got any reaction on that. Your needle is banging around here . . .

PC: Oh.

LRH: . . . so I have to check it a little bit. Would you care to answer it?

PC: I was thinking maybe that this overt on Robin I said, but it wasn't only to impress you. No, it wasn't.

LRH: All right. Good.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me check it again.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? Now I am getting a kick on this.

PC: Oh, it wasn't only to impress you, but maybe I — it was a little bit to impress you. This overt on Robin, about writing him notes and stuff . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: . . . like that.

LRH: Okay. Thank you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you said something only to impress me? That's clean. Or tried to damage anyone in this session? Thank you. That's clean. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Now what's the ping on that?

PC: I was looking for that — that double tick.

LRH: Oh!

PC: You know?

LRH: All right. All right.

PC: Looking for the double tick that I had.

LRH: Very good. All right. I'll check that. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? I get a little tick on it still.

PC: Well, I implied that I could influence, I suppose, to a certain extent, if I could "push the button." I said I could "push the button" there and get a double tick.

LRH: Oh, yeah.

PC: You know, and that — if that was true, then I could push the button any time and get a double tick.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Sort of push the button.

LRH: All right.

PC: That wasn't true, you know.

LRH: Okay. All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Very improbable. I will check it one more time.

PC: Oh, I don't want it to read when — when I can't find anything to — to — for it to read on.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: You see?

LRH: All right. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? I haven't got a reading here . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … but subject seems to be kind of mucky.

PC: Well, I've kind of held my breath at times, hoping that I wouldn't get any read, or something on that. Read a body read or — I mean, it was silly, you know? I was sort of holding my breath or holding my body still and holding my hands still to make sure that the E-Meter doesn't read.

LRH: All right.

PC: You know.

LRH: Good. All right.

PC: Hm.

LRH: Okay. Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? Well, this is a bzz-bzz . . .

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: … sort of question. It isn't reacting very hard, but there's something there. Feel you gave me a lose by making — I was trying to clean up this double tick, or . . .

PC: Something to do with that. No, not so much.

LRH: … or something like that? Any feeling like that at all?

PC: Yeah. Well, yeah, maybe — maybe I thought it at the moment when I said "What happened to the double tick?"

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And I thought, well, the double tick should have gone by now, you see?

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: It cleared up with Gernie, then that was the end of the double tick.

LRH: Hm.

PC: Then it came back.

LRH: Hm.

PC: And in a sense I felt I influenced the E-Meter, or something, to bring it back on, you know, like that.

LRH: Hm. All right. Okay. Now let me check this question again.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you deliberately tried to influence the E-Meter? That is clean. All right. Have you failed to answer any question or command I have given you in this session? Thank you. That's clean. Have you withheld anything from me? It's a trifle latent . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … but what is it?

PC: I was thinking there was one just — there was one question that I may have failed to answer . . .

LRH: What was that?

PC: … much earlier, and I'm surprised it didn't react. I was thinking there was one, and it should have reacted.

LRH: Oh, all right.

PC: or something like that.

LRH: All right, what question was it?

PC: The one about "What about those meetings in between?" I never did find a meeting in between . . .

LRH: Oh, all right.

PC: …you see, those two.

LRH: Thank you. I'm sorry I asked the double question then.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? I got a reaction.

PC: I don't understand what you meant by double question. Or . . .

LRH: I ask you a question, you answer it and I ask you another question. I was just apologizing

PC: When was that? 1. . .

LRH: Just a moment ago.

PC: Hm.

LRH: All right. Let me check this . . .

PC: Yeah.

LRH: … again. Hm? Have you withheld anything from me? Well, this — this is greasy. This hasn't anything to do with it.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? There is not an instant read on this.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Withheld? Well, there's a bing on withheld.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Withheld? Yes, there's a bing on withheld.

PC: Lot of things I'd like to talk to you about. I — you know . . .

LRH: Well, all right. Now, get the question here, now.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me? All right. It looks much cleaner.

PC: Yeah. There's a lot of things I — I don't tell you or talk about, or something like that. you know, sometimes I . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: …I've withheld — I've withheld communicating to you how pleased I am to be on the course, and how — how — how . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: … and how many gains I have got and how tremendous I think it is. That's all.

LRH: All right.

PC: You know?

LRH: Very good.

PC: But it's not an overt act. I'm trying to give overt acts that I've done and I've withheld, you know, or something like that.

LRH: Oh, I see. All right. Have you withheld anything from me? There's a slight needle change . . .

PC: Uh-huh.

LRH: … right there on the end of that.

PC: Uh…

LRH: There it is. There it is.

PC: Yeah. All right. All right. This is very funny. I — I got myself in the front — right at the front of the class . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: … this week, under the assumption I was no longer an old — a new student — that I'm an old student. Last week Herbie caught me in the third row from the back, in the first lecture, and I — here you know I — I kind of snuck up to the third row that first day . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: …you know. He told me I could sit in back, you know . . .

LRH: Yeah.

PC: … new student, next time. Well, yesterday I got in the second row from the front . . .

LRH: Uh-huh.

PC: … and no one caught me at it. If — if now, as — a little games condition thing there, and I was just seeing if — if the second week, if you're still a new student, and — and if I wouldn't be (a) I wouldn't get caught at it or (b) I would — could argue my way out that I was a new student.

LRH: All right.

PC: And — or something like that. Anyway, it's silly

LRH: All right. Thank you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Have you withheld anything from me? A halt as it goes, as it comes back up.

PC: Hm.

LRH: There.

PC: Hm.

LRH: There. What are you thinking about?

PC: Well, I . . .

LRH: There.

PC: I had an argument with — a little argument with Robin.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: … about — after I took over the post.

LRH: Hm-hm.

PC: And I . . . oh, I don't know, I didn't tell you about it.

LRH: All right. Very good.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Is that it?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Let me check this question on the meter. Have you withheld anything from me? It's just a little roughness. Pretty clean. Just a little roughness.

PC: Hm-hm.

LRH: Hardly detectable. A slowed rise.

PC: I'm trying to differentiate between motivators and, you know, overt acts, and what's really a withhold, and what isn't, and, you know, I'm still a little confused on that.

LRH: All right.

PC: And…

LRH: Does that answer the question?

PC: Yeah. And I'm not sure what — what a withhold is at this point, in a sense, you see?

LRH: Oh.

PC: And…

LRH: I see.

PC: Because it . . .

LRH: I get you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Well, go ahead, if you want.

PC: Well, it's just a "damage somebody, "you know ? I mean, it's not — see, I'm confused .

LRH: All right.

PC: You know, it's — it's that — that's — it's — it's — it's not a withhold, really, because I wouldn't mind telling you

LRH: All right.

PC: You see?

LRH: All right.

PC: So I don't . . .

LRH: Very good.

PC: … but if I did tell you, it would be kind of a "damage"; then it would be an overt act, then it — you know, it would — the rudiments would go out. And then, you know, I'm a little confused on what's a withhold. It's something I did.

LRH: All right.

PC: And I can't think of anything I did that

I, you know, withheld from you.

LRH: All right.

PC: You know.

LRH: Let me check the question again.

PC: Hm.

LRH: Have you withheld anything from me? Still get a reaction.

PC: Still get a reaction.

LRH: There it is.

PC: Right there.

LRH: There it is.

PC: Well, I — I — I . . .

LRH: There it is.

PC: Well, it's kind of an overt act now. I changed the franchise thing a — a little bit while I had the post.

LRH: Hm.

PC: And it didn't really become an overt act until Robin got excited about it when he took over.

LRH: Hm.

PC: And then — then I — something happened.

LRH: Hm-m.

PC: And I put in some — made franchises a little stiffer, you know, to get a franchise.

LRH: Hm-m.

PC: And made co-audit centers beef it up a little bit to — you know, to get more information to them for people who didn't, I felt, deserve franchises or, you know, because they weren't working at it, you know?

LRH: Hm-m.

PC: To kind of give them a gradient to get up to a franchise. Well, I withheld from you telling you that — that since Robin had taken over he's — he's switched it back and made franchise very easy to get, you know, and everything else. And I think that's wrong. And I withheld telling you that I think it's wrong

LRH: All right. Okay.

PC: But it's none of my business anymore.

LRH: All right.

PC: Huh.

LRH: Thank you.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Okay. Let me check the question. Have you withheld anything from me? Well, it's clean.

PC: Yeah. Oh, is it?

LRH: All right. Okay. Look around here and tell me if you can have anything. Thank you. Squeeze them cans. All right. Squeeze the cans. All right. Put the cans up on the table.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Touch the table. Now, we were running Feel, weren't we?

PC: Yeah, well, same thing

LRH: Does it mean anything

PC: Yeah, yeah.

LRH: All right. Okay. Touch the table. Thank you. Touch your chair. Thank you. Touch that. Good. Thank you. Touch the table. Good. Good. Touch the top of your head. Good. Thank you. Touch the table. Good. Touch your chair. Good. All right. Pick up the cans. Okay. Squeeze the cans. That's much better. Squeeze them again. All right. We are going to let it go at that. Thank you. All right. Made any part of your goals for this session?

PC: I think so.

LRH: Okay. All right.

PC: I think cleaning off this stuff on Jack will help me in Scientology — (a) in Scientology, help me in my — in studying.

LRH: Stay in PT while studying? All right.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Good.

PC: And — what was my other goal?

LRH: Sleep.

PC: Sleep?

LRH: Sleep at night?

PC: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no trouble. No trouble. Won't have any trouble.

LRH: You're postulating that, or do you — do you know?

PC: No, I know. I just know.

LRH: All right.

PC: I´ll just go to sleep easily.

LRH: You're not trying to make me look good?

PC: No, no.

LRH: All right.

PC: No. I — I just — I just feel better, and feel kind of tired, and feel like sleeping, instead of nervously tired. There's a difference.

LRH: All right. Okay. Okay.

PC: Yeah. I've been nervous. And I don't feel as nervous now.

LRH: All right.

PC: So…

LRH: I see. All right. Well, have you made any other gains in this session you care to mention?

PC: Cleaned up on Scientology.

LRH: All right.

PC: Remembered a few things, that. . .

LRH: Okay.

PC: … didn't remember otherwise.

LRH: Anything else?

PC: Hm . . . I just feel more rested . . .

LRH: All right.

PC: …you know. I don't feel as frantic as I used to feel.

LRH: Good. All right. Thank you.

PC: I got on television again.

LRH: All right. Okay.

PC: It's a game.

LRH: All right. Okay. Is there anything you care to say or ask before I end this session?

PC: No, but thank you.

LRH: All right. You're sure?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let me check that. Anything you care to say or ask before I end this session? Thank you. All right. You're all right, then, huh?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Is it all right with you if I end this session now?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right, here it is. End of session. Has the session ended for you?

PC: Yeah. Yeah, it has.

LRH: Has it?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Very good. Tell me I'm no longer auditing you.

PC: You're no longer auditing me.

LRH: Thank you.