This is January — this is January the twelfth, 1953. The talk I am giving here is consecutive to the Philadelphia tape — second hour, afternoon, December the ninth — following the material on agree, disagree, have, not-have, and so on. On those tapes you will learn far more about this material of the reverse vector of the physical universe.

Physical universe is in reverse. It is gruesomely in reverse. You look at this series of charts on the December 9 lecture, you will find that an agreement is an inflow and a disagreement is an outflow. A not-have is an outflow and a have is an inflow. You agree with something, you have it. If you disagree with something, you don't have it. That's elementary, isn't it?

So we get a condition whereby if you — here you are [LRH drawing] and that is agree, and this is I again, and this is have. Far as you're concerned, all you got to do is agree with something and you'll have it, won't you? Isn't that cute? Because let's took at what the other party is doing at the same time.

There's the outflow for the other party, and he disagrees to make you agree. And so what you agree with, he's disagreeing with.

This is the MEST universe in terms of the use of flows. And this will tell you why you can't use flows in the MEST universe, and that the faster you can get out of using flows in processing, the happier you are and the better off you will be. And this is why agreement with the MEST universe is the most deadly trap that ever got rigged.

Because if he has not [LRH drawing], that's an outflow, isn't it, from him? See, here he is over here; here you are. So he has not if you have. You have, he has not. You get the idea? Well, isn't that wonderful? It means that if you have, however, it's going to disagree with you. And it means that if you agree, you'll get what he doesn't want. Now this goes to a far lengthier matter in this — these earlier afternoon tapes. But just take a look at that.

Now, we'll find out that I over here disagrees [LRH drawing], will get you agreeing. So we don't ever get a situation in which two people can agree in terms of flows. But we get them agreeing in terms of postulates. When we think of, then, life itself being a unit body or being high on the tone scale, being itself, wefind out that it's possible for an overall life to be compatible within itself, so long as its individuality is its own individuality; not when it is identified as other different individuals.

The way you would break apart a group is to make identities out of them — identities all of the same body. Now we'll get into that a little more thoroughly here. We'll see that above 40 on the tone scale, all that happens is postulates. This follows this way. You want to know what's wrong with your preclear? Nobody obeys his orders, that's what's wrong with your preclear. I mean, I'm sorry to have to sum it up that fast, because you won't assimilate it that fast.

He started using flows. And when he started using flows and using space and anchor points and things like this, people stopped obeying his orders. Why did they stop obeying his orders? Because he had to disagree in order to get anybody to agree. And of course, if they agreed, why, they got what he disagreed with; and if he agreed, he got what disagreed with him; and flows are all backwards and upset. But up above 40.0 on the tone scale, he merely said, "It will be." He said something like "Let there be light," and there was light. He didn't have to then write a propaganda leaflet to hit the London County Council so as to provide further electricity in case a couple of politicians could get together and get enough graft out of it. You get the idea?

That's a long way from "Let there be light."

If he wanted a ditch someplace or other, in terms of postulates, he said, "Let there be a place to be a ditch, and now let there be a ditch in it." A little — start using flows, and he gets down along the level of the MEST universe, and he says, "Hey, you. Dig a ditch here."

"Why should I dig a ditch here?" "Well, I said dig a ditch."

"Well, I don't care. We belong to a union."

Kind of rough. In other words, his ability to make postulates goes to pieces the second he starts down into flows and force. And the best there is of him, and really all there is of him, is that portion above 40 which can make and make stick an instantaneous postulate. That's why Creative Processing works so wonderfully. It's rehabilitating the best there is of the preclear. His ability to think is not his ability to reason. His ability to be is his ability to create by postulate alone.

All right, the MEST universe starts agreeing and disagreeing and playing this game with him and the next thing you know those things he agrees with he doesn't get, and those things he disagrees with he does get, and if he wants a car terribly badly he's got to have a rollycoaster, and if he wants a rollycoaster very badly he's got to have an airplane, and if he gets the airplane or the rollycoaster they're going to disagree with him.

And he's in a complete scramble and a confusion. Do you know what the end of that line is? The end of that line is being MEST itself — way down at the bottom of the tone scale. That's the theta trap.

So what do you rehabilitate? You want to look down along the line, you will find that your preclear started getting into trouble when he got connected with people who flagrantly didn't obey orders. That's a very low-level thing.

He was a member of the armed services; he was a sergeant. And he had a private by the name of Doakstein or Goldski or something, and this private was a notorious goldbrick. And this private had a wonderful facility of saying yes and then doing no, and being very reverse about this whole deal. Saying yes, doing no, begging off, arguing. "Who said that was the order? Did the captain say so? No, I don't think the captain said so. Well, yes, if the captain didn't say so, then the major must have said so. Oh, you don't have a written order about it, then how do I know? And where's my pass, besides?" and so forth.

And finally after he's been a sergeant for a little while amongst Homo sapiens, he's done. They bury him, practically. On what level? He couldn't make a postulate stick. That's all. He goes out and he says, "Line up. All right. Right shoulder arms." And there's Goldski someplace else. And when Goldski comes out he does slope arms. And his buttons are untied, and his shoes are on his ears or something. And this is what happens.

If you think the sergeants go mad, think what must happen to generals. That's why they're all completely berserk.

Now, this tells you something very pertinent. This tells you that you want to look down the track for the time this fellow got aberrated, you look down the track when he first realized he couldn't make what he said stick. In other words he couldn't make a postulate happen instantaneously. And one day there he was, sweet, innocent little child, playing around, and all of a sudden he said, innocently and stupidly — because he didn't have enough horsepower to make it stick — he said to this stone, "Get out of my way." And you know what it did? Kicked his right shin in! And he says, "What do you know! There's something else around here making postulates that are higher than my postulates." And that something else is called the MEST universe. He breaks affinity with the whole thing. He finds out that when he falls down, earth does not move aside. It expects him to.

You can do the darnedest technique, by the way, by getting a mock-up (this is just a little two-bit technique of no importance, probably), and get a mock-up of stones drilling your preclear. Get a mockup of a stone and the mock-up of the preclear's body, you see? And have the stone saying, "To the rear, march. To the rear, march. To the rear, march. To the rear, march," you know? And have the fellow going like that and so on. He'll all of a sudden get terribly groggy. Why? Because the MEST universe has been ordering him around and invalidating his postulates left and right.

Is there a level in which a person merely says "Stone, move," and the stone moves? Yes, I'm afraid there is. But he's not there.

And his soaring down the line from a state of sublimity and efficiency into the state of being Homo sapiens is the curve of disobedience on the part of the MEST universe. His postulates eventually become such a horrible thing as orders. His orders eventually become requests for cooperation. His requests for cooperation eventually become wondering why it didn't happen, then pleading with people, then asking for sympathy, and on out the bottom. And there's your curve of deterioriation and it's the deterioration of a postulate.

What is the tone scale of a postulate? It starts out as simply a postulate. It says, "Let there be light. Stones will now move." And that happens. And we go down the line and we find out that less and less these postulates act as postulates and they become more and more orders, and then from orders they become cooperation, and then they become reasoning with things in order to get something done. That's association; you've gotten down below the level of force action. There's using force in order to get a postulate done, and that's — oh, that's the end of the road.

Fellow starts to use force, what's he get? Why is it he keeps beating this other guy, he keeps beating him and beating him and beating him, and the more he beats him, why, the more obedience he ought to get. Oh, yeah? Hmm! Doesn't work that way. You see, the more he disagrees with this other fellow, theoretically the more this other fellow will agree with him — up to the moment when he agrees that the other fellow is something or other and then the other fellow disagrees with him again. I mean, it'll flick back and forth.

The other fellow — see, he beats him until the other fellow obeys. And then the second the other fellow obeys, then he agrees that this obedience was a good thing. And the second he agrees the obedience was a good thing, the other fellow reverses vector and begins to disagree again. You wonder why you can't beat somebody into following orders. Well, it can't be done, that's all. So it's a nasty little puzzle; has to do with reverse vectors. The two earlier hours cover this very exhaustively.

All right. Let's add to that this new material that that is the deterioration of a postulate. And the curve of a postulate as it deteriorates from above 40.0 down to 0.0 is the curve of deterioration of the preclear. Because what is valuable in the preclear? That which makes postulates. Postulate Processing, the highest echelon of processing: you want to rehabilitate that as fast as possible. If you want to rehabilitate that then you'd certainly better use material and mock-ups and so forth which rehabilitate his idea that he can make a postulate and make it stick, and this is best done by mock-ups, and so therefore he comes up tone scale on mock-ups with great rapidity and doesn't come up on terms of agreement with the MEST universe or in using flows or anything else. And he doesn't come up fast using flows in agreeing with the MEST universe for the good reason that the more you agree with the MEST universe the more it disagrees with you. See? Agree with the MEST universe — disagree, right away. All right? You should understand that in terms of postulates.

Now, I'm going to give you another one that should be appended right straight into this, Many of these lectures have to do with anchor points and have to do with space. You're going to get a lot of material on that.

What's an anchor point? Well, how do you know you're there? The way you know you're there is you've got an anchor point up there in that corner of that room, up here, corner, up here; you look at those two anchor points, you're located with relationship to those two anchor points, so there you are.

Now, you go outside someplace into a large space or something of the sort, and you put up a couple of anchor points out here. In other words they're just a couple of dots. You put a couple in back of you, you've got dimension.

What is space? Space is a viewpoint of dimension. Is it an actuality? No, it's not an actuality. It's just viewpoint of dimension. Therefore many things can exist concurrently with many other things in the same space. Why? Because the space isn't there. Does this call Korzybski a liar? Yes, it does, but he didn't know Scientology. He was a good guy.

You don't believe that lots of things can go into lots of spaces where lots of other things already are? Start crowding in mock- ups. When your preclear really gets good, he can put ten-ton trucks into match boxes like mad. He can not only put one in there, but he can put ten-ton trucks where the last ten-ton truck was, and have them both. And then drive them out in different directions from the same piece of space. And we're dealing now with the actual rather than the real. That differentiation is made in this series of lectures very closely: the difference between the actual and the real. We're dealing with the actual, we're not dealing with the real.

What's the real? The real is the MEST universe. What's the actual? That's you. You know you exist, and that's the knowingest know you know. So therefore that must therefore be the most actual thing there is. Simple logic, but it happens to work out.

All right. What's a viewpoint of dimension, then? What's dimension? Well, you are the viewpoint, and from that viewpoint you envision space, and so you mark out the space and there you are, and that is space. And if a bunch of you started disagreeing with the fact the space of the MEST universe existed, it'd probably collapse. That's a fact. You just stop viewing it as viewpoint. This could happen very rapidly and very contagiously.

You just disagree thoroughly on the existence of a certain piece of space and just from this nobody would go there anymore. If everybody was agreed it didn't exist, why, nobody'd just go there anymore. It would cease to exist as space. Just from that standpoint. And that's the mildest one. Now, we run that up to the reductio ad absurdum, yes, it would cease to exist.

How do we know earth wasn't flat when everybody believed it was? They believed, you know, for ages and ages that earth was flat.

Then a fellow came along and said it was round; after that it was round. I don't know, maybe it was the shape of a cat just before that. Who cares? is the main thing about this; it's completely unimportant. It's very important to an engineer who's trying to do something with this universe, but it's awfully unimportant to most people. They look out the horizon, and they can see the horizon goes out there and that's the horizon. That's that. You, by the way, run an agreement that the earth is flat, in some preclear, that is so solid that he never has seen the roundness of a globe or a curvature of earth; he wouldn't believe it if he did see them. And you'll find that, find him stuck on the track back there before Copernicus.

So anyway, that's beside the point. Let's just get this idea; in the Philadelphia lectures we cover space, space, space, space, and we talk about space all over the place and Spacation and so forth, let's just add this point to it. It's quite important, because it doesn't exist in those lectures and it's very important to an auditor.

What is the progress of self-concept of size? What is the deterioration of size? What happens to a thetan in this universe in terms of space? How big is a thetan?

Well, he's as big as he can put anchor points out there. And he is as little as he gets them driven in. What do you mean about driving in an anchor point? Well, you mean something very simple.

Let's draw a picture of this thetan with anchor points [LRH drawing]. Here's your thetan, circle here. Let's say his anchor points as he looked out to the front — by the way, it's very amusing: the GE — the GE has a couple of anchor points out there. They're quite some distance away. And when he thinks they're closed down, boy, do you get sick. Those anchor points float way out there. And the thetan can go out and poke them, and they'll turn back into the same point, they'll come back to the same thing again. I mean they're the only object that he finds anywhere around his body that won't stay permanently moved if he pushes it.

He goes out and he throws — hits against these things and he gives them a shove, and they go away. They don't go away, they just wander off and then they come right back to the same point.

Very fascinating. Because he can mock up things that look twice as good as them and three times as solid and push them around and they'll fly all over the place, but not these. Those are the GE's anchor points on which the whole organization of the body is built. These are the orienting points on which the human body is constructed, and that is the size of the bodies regulated by those points and so forth.

So here are a couple of points up here. Here's anchor point A, anchor point B. We got those two big points out there. All right. Let's just take your thetan and he looks out here and he sees anchor point A and anchor point B. Now, if you take these anchor points and you imagine these anchor points out there in front of you, not the GE's, just — you don't — see, you don't have to have any anchor points at all, that's the whole joke. You get into space; the second that you believe there's space then you think there has to be anchor points, and the second you get anchor points you get relative size, and the second you get relative size you get in there paralleling flows; you've got space then and you've got energy, you're working along with a parallel of the MEST universe; and the next thing you know, you're taking your cue for size from the MEST universe only, and you're in the bag. You're all ruined by that time.

Put up — just throw out as far as you can, out thataway, out in front of you there, throw out a couple of anchor points. Throw them way out there. See how far out you can get them.

Note your own concept of size. Throw them way back out there again. Let's get them way out.

All right. Now haul them in. Bring them in to with about an inch in front of your face. Let's get them right up close.

Now let's put four or five more about an inch in front of your face.

Now let's put another dozen right here about an inch in front of your face.

Now let's haul them in tighter.

Now let's put another hundred or so right there about an inch in front of your face and let's pull them in closer.

Now let's pretend there's a wall out in front of them that won't let them go out again.

Now let's knock down the wall, and let's start throwing those anchor points way out, as far as you can throw them. Get them way out there. As many of them as you got, get them way out.

Now just reach into your body, anywhere that you have a somatic, and pick up an anchor point and put it way out in front of you.

Reach in there anyplace you've got a feeling, any sensation at all, and pick up that sensation, pick up an anchor point right at that point and put it way out there.

Now reach into your eyeballs, and pick an anchor point out of each eyeball and put it way out there.

All right. Now just adjust your anchor points the way they normally are.

Two things happened: either as you pulled them up close to you, either as you pulled them up close to you, you got a feeling of enormous size (in other words what you did, you didn't pull them in, you just made yourself bigger); or, you got a feeling of being very tiny. As you pulled them in you got smaller and smaller. You see? You could go either way with that. You could adjust your size to the anchor points by getting bigger or adjust your anchor points to your size by getting smaller. Very fascinating, isn't it? Well, that's what size is. And that's also this stuff up here.

All the work you go to all the time to stipple this in is fascinating, but you just stipple it in continually. Good and solid, too. You — when you do this you have to stipple in all sorts of things. You think — you don't — you think your mind is maybe sloppy or isn't operating, or something of the sort. Boy, when you start to think of how much it has to go to keep this universe filled in, it's really wonderful. Really does quite a job.

This is anchor points, this stuff up here, this MEST — whole flock of anchor points. When a person has to live in too small a room, something like that, why, he tries to put out anchor points and they conflict with this and then he feels very strange about the whole thing. That's why you take some guy like Adolf Schicklgruber and you find him and his minions always putting a desk at one end of the hall where you ought to have a ballroom or something of the sort and getting the other end of that hall as far as possible away. It made them feel, made some of them feel awfully small and made some of them feel awfully big, you see? Well, if it made you feet awfully big, why, you got a big hall, and if you needed the reverse you'd get a little tiny hall.

You want to know what's the matter with people with claustrophobia and other things: Disorientation with regard to space. Nearly everybody's got a disorientation of one sort or another with regard to space. Disorientation is simply based upon an aberration of that concept of anchor points. They put out anchor points. There isn't any reason why you have to put out anchor points, that's the first move into energy.

An anchor point is a unit of energy. That's your first unit of energy, and when a fellow starts making lots of energy he just puts out lots of anchor points and that flows from one place to another and he changes it around and you've got energy. And that's about all there is to it, I'm afraid.

It's quite simple. You stipple space in. As you think this over it'll digest, and become more — much more digestible to you. It's just the idea of here are anchor points and so on.

You can go down the street and you'll watch this bus coming toward you. And actually you can get a frame of mind so that as you watch the bus coming toward you, you get huge. You'll just get enormous. That's the wrong thing to do with regard to London buses, they don't care how big you are. Or you'll look at it and it's making you very small. As a matter of fact it is driving in an anchor point.

Now, what is this thing called size, and how does it become fixed with the being? Why does he think he's just this big? It's fascinating, but from preclear to preclear, he — they give you the weirdest differences how big they are. One fellow says, "I'm a great big thetan." Another one says, "I'm just a little fellow." Rats!

Funny part of it is, you see, there's really no such thing as size except relative to something else. And what he's telling you is "I feel bigger than something," or "I feel smaller than something." All you have to ask him is "Than what?"

He says, "I feel real big. I'm a great big thetan."

You say, "Bigger than what?" And he'll really give you the answer. He'll think for a moment, and he'll realize that he's got himself estimated alongside of a palm tree he knew once, or something of the sort. And he's got himself lined up with some other spacial characteristic.

Now, in the Philadelphia lectures you'll hear a great deal about desire, enforce and inhibit as the three stages. Now, you as a thetan actually add interest to things. There are three characteristics with which we're involved here. One is interest. You can be interested in something without a dimension and without any energy involved. You're just simply — you're interested, that's all. Now, when we get interested in something which has dimension, we have to reach out and approximate its dimensions with anchor points in order to perceive it. But remember — get that solidly — interest does not depend upon anchor points and energy. The three things are interest, anchor points and space and energy.